I want faster character creation. Also, I’m a monster.

[abirdcall]

I like just using the Standard Array.

I think 4d6 drop lowest breaks the game.

And I think point buy adds unnecessary complication. It gives the wrong impression of the game to new players and only adds a simple optimization puzzle to the game.


As for creating characters - In my experience the spellcasters take a lot of time. So I just give them a few spell suggestions for the first session and then have them change them to their liking after it is over. We use spell cards which speeds up the process of learning spells too.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I’ve said what I mean like 20x times. What I mean isn’t that point buy takes a long time for inexperienced players. It takes a long time for experienced players too. It vastly increases their number of options and a player that cares about comparing and contrasting those options takes a while.

I will say that it vastly increases the number of options, compared to rolling in order. Regardless of how you get the numbers, deciding where to place them is the big time sink.

I think the fastest method of generating random stats that were still playable (without massive re-rolling) came from Gamma World 7E: You automatically get an 18 in your prime stat, or a 16 in each if you had two prime stats, and everything else was 3d6 in order.

 

[Arilyn]

I will say that it vastly increases the number of options, compared to rolling in order. Regardless of how you get the numbers, deciding where to place them is the big time sink.

I think the fastest method of generating random stats that were still playable (without massive re-rolling) came from Gamma World 7E: You automatically get an 18 in your prime stat, or a 16 in each if you had two prime stats, and everything else was 3d6 in order.

I like that Gamma World idea.
We like standard arrays, but having only one is dull. We have a selection of arrays to choose from. Okay, that's not speeding things up much, but you could randomly roll for the array, and then randomly place the individual numbers. Somebody might have already tossed this idea out in the thread.

 

[Seramus]

I’ve said what I mean like 20x times. What I mean isn’t that point buy takes a long time for inexperienced players. It takes a long time for experienced players too. It vastly increases their number of options and a player that cares about comparing and contrasting those options takes a while.

The position you paint is one of fairly extreme analysis paralysis. If that was not your intention, that is definitely what you are conveying to me - a previously uninvolved third party. While there will always be some players that deal with considerable analysis paralysis, I usually only see it in new players or players who have not learned effective coping mechanisms for their paralysis.

(Assuming they view their paralysis as a negative. Some people love to spend 40 hours on character creation.)

 

[Oofta]

I’ve said what I mean like 20x times. What I mean isn’t that point buy takes a long time for inexperienced players. It takes a long time for experienced players too. It vastly increases their number of options and a player that cares about comparing and contrasting those options takes a while.

Speaking for myself and people I've discussed this with, point buy takes almost no time. Decide what your character is going to be and throw some numbers in. Sometimes I quibble for a minute or so about where I should put numbers. But compared to the rest of character creation that has nothing to do with the numbers, it's a tiny percent.

Other ways of getting ability scores only changes the starting point, I personally don't see how it would significantly change how long it takes to make a character. Figuring out who my character is takes far longer than determining what they are.

For me, and people I actually play with (novices and experienced players alike), just about the only way to do it faster would be do throw a bunch of pregens into a hat and pull them randomly.

 

[Wiseblood]

Ability scores usually don’t eat up much time. Most players grasp the concept easily. Higher numbers are better. Class X relies on ability Y.

Class and race are weighed and measured. Even if you know exactly which class and race combination you want you have to dig through and pile all that up. Or a class has mechanisms that work differently when you rest. I think here is where some baggage has accrued especially with race. Hell, even humans get racial bonuses. Humans could (I think should) be the bar by which races are measured. Someone got envious of the demihumans and chose to put their thumb on the scale.

Then they get into the weeds a bit when they’re picking skills and backgrounds. Often they want to try some new stuff and they want to learn what it really does. Background selection is then toyed with for a while. Here is when a lot of characterization happens. It can take some time if players are still exploring who this character is or where they came from.

Then comes spells and equipment. Equipment is pretty straightforward. Armor protects, weapons do harm to enemies. Things have cost and weight and usage requirements. Equipment is often analogous to real world things.

Spells come last and are a game unto themselves. I’m going to number the points here because they aren’t things that can be reasoned out or inferred from fiction beyond the fundamental aspects.

Stage one
1)how many spells do you know or learn?
2)how many can you use (over time)?
3)which ones can you pick from?
4)how does your class get new ones?
5)how do you recover them?

Stage two
6)review the spell list
7)select spells(this can take a while)
8)learn how each spell works (vaguely)

Stage three: basics of spellslinging.
This stuff is the kind of thing your DM should know but might not know or use. (Due to house rules or perhaps theater of the mind comes to...er mind) Because things get weird on that side of the screen.

9)spell components
10) area of effect (sometimes shape) and range if separated
11)targetable things
12)duration
13)class interactions with spells (e.g.sorcery points or spell sculpting)
14)casting times (e.g. reaction)and timeline of effects if any (what part of the turn or round does the effect begin or end)
15)conditions or limitations(e.g. does damage on a miss)
16) concentration

If you’ve been there many times it’s not so bad. If it’s new to you (even just a different class) it can have a treadmill like quality to it. This stuff literally multiplies when you start at higher levels.

 

[Hriston]

Having something like this ready, based on each class's "quick build" section, could help speed things up. That way, all a player needs to do is pick a class and the array that goes with it and add racial ASIs.[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]STR[/td]
[td]DEX[/td]
[td]CON[/td]
[td]INT[/td]
[td]WIS[/td]
[td]CHA[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Barbarian / Melee Fighter[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Bard[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]STR Cleric[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]CON Cleric / Druid[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Archery (Finesse) Fighter[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Melee Fighter, pre-EK[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Archery (Finesse) Fighter, pre-EK / Investigation/pre-AT Rogue[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Monk / DEX Ranger[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Paladin[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]STR Ranger[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Deception Rogue[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Sorcerer / Warlock[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]CON Wizard[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]DEX Wizard[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]CON Wizard, pre-Enchantment[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]DEX Wizard, pre-Enchantment[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

 

[Charlaquin]

Having something like this ready, based on each class's "quick build" section, could help speed things up. That way, all a player needs to do is pick a class and the array that goes with it and add racial ASIs.

This is a good idea, though some of these arrays seem... I mean, there are a lot of odd numbers in there, and some of them have multiple scores <10.

 

[Hriston]

This is a good idea, though some of these arrays seem... I mean, there are a lot of odd numbers in there, and some of them have multiple scores <10.

Using the standard array as a model, I put the high numbers where the quick build section tells you to, and I spread the remaining points out among the lower scores. This is how I assign scores for NPCs when there isn’t a reason to do it differently. Another approach could yield results more suitable for an individual table’s need for optimization or whatever the desired result is. The concept is to have a set of pre-assigned arrays ready for each class or sub-type within each class that would need that type of support.

 

[Charlaquin]

Using the standard array as a model, I put the high numbers where the quick build section tells you to, and I spread the remaining points out among the lower scores. This is how I assign scores for NPCs when there isn’t a reason to do it differently. Another approach could yield results more suitable for an individual table’s need for optimization or whatever the desired result is. The concept is to have a set of pre-assigned arrays ready for each class or sub-type within each class that would need that type of support.

Yeah, I saw that they all worked out to 27 points and had a 15, 14, and 13 like the standard array. It’s definitely a good idea. I was just saying, i’d personally lean towards fewer 9s and 11s and more 10s, 12s, and 8s.