Pre-Rolling Certain Opposed Checks

[MechaPilot]

Lately, I've been toying with the idea of having my players roll a D20 several times before the session, recording each of these rolls and handing them over to be beforehand. The idea is that I'd use those results as their D20 rolls when they make certain opposed checks where knowing the result beforehand might potentially alter how they behave (particularly checks like Stealth, Insight, and rolls to detect or disarm traps).

I have a couple ideas for how to execute this plan:


1) Rolling for self, in-order.

Under this method, each player would make a certain number of rolls, I'm thinking 10 or 20 of them. I would then use them in order, crossing them off as I go.


2) Rolling for self, random.

This method would be the same as the first, except that I would number the rolls on the page and have the player roll a die (d10 or d20, depending on the number of rolls before the session) to randomly choose the predetermined roll. I wouldn't cross off results under this method. This method has the benefit of mostly removing a player's ability to recall what the predetermined rolls were during play.

3) Swapped Rolls, in-order.

This is the same as method #1, but I swap the players' rolls so that Player A uses Player B's rolls, and vice-versa. I only have 2 players right now.

4) Swapped Rolls, random.

This is the same as method #2, but I swap the players' rolls so that Player A uses Player B's rolls, and vice-versa.


As a player, how would you feel about this practice? What would be your concerns if it were implemented at your table?

As a DM, what do you think of the idea?

 

[iserith]

As a player, I'm not sure how I'd respond. Since I'm a DM primarily and can't help but see things through that lens, I'd be concerned about the kind of game the DM was running and how he or she viewed the adjudication process. But I'd have to see how it goes in practice.

As a DM, I would not see any value in this approach. This looks to be something that is intended to keep the players in the dark for reasons that I don't understand in the abstract. I'm not really into that. If I'm calling for an ability check, we're trying to resolve uncertainty as to the outcome of something right now. If I didn't want to resolve it right now, I wouldn't call for the check.

 

[Satyrn]

Options 3 and 4 are an automatic no-go for me as a player. I don't want some other player rolling the dice for my character.

I guess I could go with option 1 or 2.

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As I DM, I'm wondering why you don't just compare your monster's roll against the PC's passive score. The end result is much the same, isn't it? It's at least close enough to be good enough for me, without bothering about rolling a bunch of dice rolls before the session.

 

[Quartz]

Lately, I've been toying with the idea of having my players roll a D20 several times before the session, recording each of these rolls and handing them over to be beforehand.

Create a sheet of printed d20 results and tick them off as you go. But I wouldn't use this in a situation where the player knows they have to roll. Passive perception DCs, saves for enemy mooks, monster checks, invisible effects, etc. But if the player is actively trying to have their PC sneak past a guard they get to roll. There's a certain amount of trust involved, of course, but it can allow better story-telling. For instance if one of the PCs gets Dominated or Possessed, you can do this without the others knowing - just pass the player a note - but if the players see one player rolling, they'll know that something is up.

 

[Oofta]

I've tried a modified version of #2 because if a person remembers even the first couple of rolls option #1 kind of defeats the purpose. What I did was just roll once and mark the "starting" point for tracking, it kept my rolls to a minimum.

It was okay but it didn't add enough to the game for me to keep it. I also had feedback that people felt less engaged. Most of my players have fun with rolling a 1 on that insight check and then RPing their mistake. If I remember I'll probably even give them inspiration for it.

I do pre-roll sometimes for NPCs, especially if I expect to do a lot of things the PCs shouldn't be aware of. Of course I do the opposite as well, roll a D20 for no reason and pretend to look things up.

 

[MechaPilot]

Options 3 and 4 are an automatic no-go for me as a player. I don't want some other player rolling the dice for my character.

I guess I could go with option 1 or 2.

I suspected numbers 3 & 4 would be an issue. I just put them on the list because they did occur to me as ways to prevent a player from recalling what they rolled.

As I DM, I'm wondering why you don't just compare your monster's roll against the PC's passive score. The end result is much the same, isn't it? It's at least close enough to be good enough for me, without bothering about rolling a bunch of dice rolls before the session.

Players frequently like rolling. I was trying to preserve the players still getting to roll but without them making decisions based on their die rolls. For example, a stealthed character isn't going to know how well she's hiding before she risks being seen, and a character tying to tell if someone's lying (or has bad intentions) shouldn't act like they succeeded because the player can see he rolled a 2.

 

[Mort]

I suspected numbers 3 & 4 would be an issue. I just put them on the list because they did occur to me as ways to prevent a player from recalling what they rolled.




Players frequently like rolling. I was trying to preserve the players still getting to roll but without them making decisions based on their die rolls. For example, a stealthed character isn't going to know how well she's hiding before she risks being seen, and a character tying to tell if someone's lying (or has bad intentions) shouldn't act like they succeeded because the player can see he rolled a 2.

I see what you're going for, but I still prefer passive checks - unless the player asks to roll (if they don't know to ask- well all the more reason for the passive check).

Ever since I've started using them, players really like the smoothness it adds to the game. Plus feats like observant, really mean something.

 

[jgsugden]

For decades I have been pinning up a series or random numbers on my DM screen. The sheet has a section with percentile dice and a section with d20s. Whenever I need a d20 roll - for any purpose, but I do not want to tip that it was necessary, I look at the next number on the sheet that I have not seen and use it for the roll.

New players often raise that they don't like that they are not rolling the dice. I point out that it is still random, and that I have a track record of it working well. Some players never like it too much, but it has never been a deal breaker and it allows me to weave a better story for the group, so I stick with it.

However, there have been times when there was a 'make or break' roll where the result of the die roll will change the campaig significantly. For those, I ask the player to roll, and always give them at least a hint as to why they are rolling. When everything is on the line, I'd rather have there be a bit too much player knowledge than see them feel like they're not part of the major moments.

 

[Satyrn]

Players frequently like rolling. I was trying to preserve the players still getting to roll but without them making decisions based on their die rolls. For example, a stealthed character isn't going to know how well she's hiding before she risks being seen, and a character tying to tell if someone's lying (or has bad intentions) shouldn't act like they succeeded because the player can see he rolled a 2.

Yes, we do like to roll dice. That's actually why I don't like your OP's options 1 and 2 very much either, but would be totally fine with giving them a go because it could prove to be good enough.

But as a DM, my solution to the stealth example in your quote is to have the player wait to roll the dice until there's a moment when they are about to get spotted, not when they start hiding. This way, the player learns, his character learns, and I learn how well he's hidden at the moment it truly matters.

 

[iserith]

But as a DM, my solution to the stealth example in your quote is to have the player wait to roll the dice until there's a moment when they are about to get spotted, not when they start hiding. This way, the player learns, his character learns, and I learn how well he's hidden at the moment it truly matters.

^ This.

There is a tendency to want to go to the dice the moment an action is offered which sounds like it could be an ability check, but that's not always the best choice given the situation.