ValdDrakul
First Post
As a DM, am I suppose to call out the level of the spell my bad guys, in cases of using higher spell slots, are using for the sake of counter spell? Or do I just let my players just contest it?
-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Counter spell and calling out spell levels
- Thread starter ValdDrakul
- Start date
iserith
Magic Wordsmith
I don't think it's very clear form the spell description, but I do tell them directly, in addition to describing the caster fictionally as summoning more power (or whatever).
It allows the players to make an informed choice and I find that the more informed, meaningful choices in the game, the better the play experience is.
It allows the players to make an informed choice and I find that the more informed, meaningful choices in the game, the better the play experience is.
Counterpoint: counterspell is overpowered and leads to boring game-play. Often the best tactical option is to just counterspell everything; it's an easy decision to make, and by eliminating enemy spells before they happen, counterspell also eliminates future interesting decisions. So maybe taking a hard line on spell identification and spell level identification would balance counterspell better and make casting it more of a gamble.
A valid concern.
In my game, I have a house rule that the same reaction used to identify a spell being cast XGtE with an arcana check be the same reaction used to cast a spell like counterspell.
So, character skill, risk losing reaction even if not counter spelling etc.
So its somewhere between uninformed choice and informed choice eith that between determined by character aptitude.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Our DM doesn't tell us (or me, I should say, since I am the only caster with Counterspell 
), but we also changed it so it won't automatically stop spells no matter what level they are: you ALWAYS have to roll at our table. I'm fine with it, personally, and prefer it since it works both ways.
), but we also changed it so it won't automatically stop spells no matter what level they are: you ALWAYS have to roll at our table. I'm fine with it, personally, and prefer it since it works both ways.Greenfield
Adventurer
The basic Counterspell maneuver (without Improved Counterspell) works, without dice roll, but you have to have the *same* spell to counter it with, or one specific to that spell. Someone wants to try casting an Empowered, Heightened, Silent, etc Fireball, you need Fireball to counter it. You don't need to match the level or metamagic elements.
You can also do it with a Dispel, but that's a lot less certain.
When using the Improved Counterspell feat you can use a broader range of spells to block the spell, but it has to be a spell of the same school and at least one level higher.
At a minimum you need to identify that spell, typically with a Spellcraft check. Since that check DC is tied to the level of the spell being recognized/identified, and because the metamagics affect that effective level, I can't see any reason why the Spellcraft wouldn't give you that as well.
On the down side, when you aren't using the same spell then you do need to count the spell slot increases from Metamagic enhancements and Heighten Spell effects. It gets a lot more expensive.
And the maneuver is expensive in other ways: Your caster has to Ready Action to Counterspell, with the Feat or not, which means that your caster is tied up, effectively out of the conflict while theirs is free to do whatever is needed, outside of casting a spell.
In our games people have kept pushing my various spell caster to become better at melee. Not because they think I'm going to rush to the front line, but because they know my Wiz or Bard, or Sorc or whatever can still "fight defensively" while providing a flank. He/she can Aid Another to improve a companion's effective AC, essentially a Shield Bearer or an "I've got your back" thing. So my primary or secondary spell casters were still able to contribute when low on spells, or when facing a foe that spells didn't work well against. Or when some smarta.. er.. alec tries to get cute with Counterspell. I effectively take him/her out of play by not triggering their Ready Action.
So there's a reason we don't see that maneuver very often. No real need to make it harder.
You can also do it with a Dispel, but that's a lot less certain.
When using the Improved Counterspell feat you can use a broader range of spells to block the spell, but it has to be a spell of the same school and at least one level higher.
At a minimum you need to identify that spell, typically with a Spellcraft check. Since that check DC is tied to the level of the spell being recognized/identified, and because the metamagics affect that effective level, I can't see any reason why the Spellcraft wouldn't give you that as well.
On the down side, when you aren't using the same spell then you do need to count the spell slot increases from Metamagic enhancements and Heighten Spell effects. It gets a lot more expensive.
And the maneuver is expensive in other ways: Your caster has to Ready Action to Counterspell, with the Feat or not, which means that your caster is tied up, effectively out of the conflict while theirs is free to do whatever is needed, outside of casting a spell.
In our games people have kept pushing my various spell caster to become better at melee. Not because they think I'm going to rush to the front line, but because they know my Wiz or Bard, or Sorc or whatever can still "fight defensively" while providing a flank. He/she can Aid Another to improve a companion's effective AC, essentially a Shield Bearer or an "I've got your back" thing. So my primary or secondary spell casters were still able to contribute when low on spells, or when facing a foe that spells didn't work well against. Or when some smarta.. er.. alec tries to get cute with Counterspell. I effectively take him/her out of play by not triggering their Ready Action.
So there's a reason we don't see that maneuver very often. No real need to make it harder.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
What is this? Is this non-5E stuff? Am I experiencing the forum merge madness already? *sigh*
By raw and confirme in xanathar counterspell is done blindly.
You don’t know the spell, nor the level.
I made once a kind on duel against a caster.
We both have counter spell.
It’s much like a poker game.
Do you counter or not? With a slot of which level?
Do you counter the counterspell or keep it for the big spell?
Counterspell is fine as it is.
You don’t know the spell, nor the level.
I made once a kind on duel against a caster.
We both have counter spell.
It’s much like a poker game.
Do you counter or not? With a slot of which level?
Do you counter the counterspell or keep it for the big spell?
Counterspell is fine as it is.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
That sounds like the 3e version.
