D&D 5E (2014) Consensus about two-weapon fighting?

[TwoSix]

Which survey? I'd like to see those

I would to, but he only mentioned it in a tweet when he was discussing his own house rules for two-weapon fighting a year or two ago.

Edit: Found the tweet. https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/1014222138268573696?s=12

 

[Xeviat]

I would to, but he only mentioned it in a tweet when he was discussing his own house rules for two-weapon fighting a year or two ago.

Edit: Found the tweet. https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/1014222138268573696?s=12

Thanks for the google-fu. I do one hundred percent agree. I've crunched a lot of numbers and "attack as many times with your offhand, no ability bonus to offhand, no bonus action" is perfectly balanced with the fighter, but it's a power up for everyone else. The more and more I'm in this debate, I think that the fighter needs a patch for TWFing because it is fine on everyone else.

This is a design mistake to me. Oops.

 

[Quartz]

The more and more I'm in this debate, I think that the fighter needs a patch for TWFing because it is fine on everyone else.

Well, the Fighter isn't actually better than any other class at - you know - fighting until level 11. It isn't even equal. And even then, at 11th level the Paladin gets a huge damage boost.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Well, the Fighter isn't actually better than any other class at - you know - fighting until level 11. It isn't even equal. And even then, at 11th level the Paladin gets a huge damage boost.

Which IMO is a very sad reflection on 5E...

 

[FrogReaver]

Well, the Fighter isn't actually better than any other class at - you know - fighting until level 11. It isn't even equal. And even then, at 11th level the Paladin gets a huge damage boost.

If feats are included I think fighters get an edge.
In a non-feat game I think you are absolutely right. Fighters are no stronger at fighting than paladins. Just different. Not worse either.

 

[FrogReaver]

Thanks for the google-fu. I do one hundred percent agree. I've crunched a lot of numbers and "attack as many times with your offhand, no ability bonus to offhand, no bonus action" is perfectly balanced with the fighter, but it's a power up for everyone else. The more and more I'm in this debate, I think that the fighter needs a patch for TWFing because it is fine on everyone else.

This is a design mistake to me. Oops.

I'm not as convinced as I was at the start of these conversations that it's even needed then - apart from a feat powerup to help compete with GWM and SS and even Shield Master.

There's a lot of versatility in going dex and two-weapon fighting in melee and using a longbow for ranged.
There's also the added benefits to stealth and initiative.
There's also the added benefit of many damage based saving throws being dex based which the higher dex helps against.

These things don't get factored in on raw damage numbers but they are definitely meaningful.

 

[DND_Reborn]

If feats are included I think fighters get an edge.
In a non-feat game I think you are absolutely right. Fighters are no stronger at fighting than paladins. Just different. Not worse either.

Really, because fighters can get more? Otherwise nothing stops a paladin from taking the same feats as a fighter.

 

[Quartz]

If feats are included I think fighters get an edge.

I disagree: the extra feat at level 6 (never mind level 14) isn't enough to offset all the goodies the other fighting classes get.

 

[FrogReaver]

I disagree: the extra feat at level 6 (never mind level 14) isn't enough to offset all the goodies the other fighting classes get.

Those feats (for the -5/+10 feats and bonus action attack feats and str/dex) coupled with action surge and precision maneuver make him the highest damage PC till rogues can get haste with a high sneak attack pool - ie the best at fighting.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Those feats (for the -5/+10 feats and bonus action attack feats and str/dex) coupled with action surge and precision maneuver make him the highest damage PC till rogues can get haste with a high sneak attack pool - ie the best at fighting.

You continually give Action Surge and other fighter features far more worth than they merit when those features are not constant. Sure, features such as Divine Smite are limited as well, but with all the slots a high level Paladin has at his disposal, it is more than what the Fighter can do.

Precision is usable at most 6 times per short/long rest, and with Action Surge at 11th level or higher you could blow through all of it in a single round. Being able to dish out the most damage for a single round does not make Fighters (in general, since you have a very specific build in mind) the best at fighting.