D&D General What is the Ranger to you?

[BookBarbarian]

Conan definately isn’t a 5e Fighter, IMO. 4e he’s a ranger

Did 4e have a Ranger that primarily used a Versatile Weapon in two hands or heavy weapon and shield? I always thought it was all Two Weapon Drizzty type Rangers.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Conceptually, I think what I said about the roles is valid.

You said nothing about the roles. You went on a bit about how the classes shook out in the past, as if it were how things /should/ be - certainly valid, conceptually, if you're talking an OSR game, or other classic-D&D imitator, or 5e.

Conan definately isn’t a 5e Fighter, IMO. 4e he’s a ranger

Into TWF & Archery, was Conan? (I'd think fighter would suit him well - no primal invocations like the 4e barb, thanks - but with good choices of Background, Theme, PP, & ED to fit his story arc).

5e Fighter probably works for Conan as well as 5e Barbarian (OK, not very) or 5e Rogue...

3.5 fighters aren’t even a class, their a math chassis and a vehicle for defining a character via feats.

You say that like it's not the best idea D&D ever had.

…

really, while he's called "The Barbarian" Conan's probably best modeled (in D&D or anything much resembling it) by 3.x style MCing. He starts out a literal Barbarian, learns more formal Fighting skills, becomes a thief and pirate, acquits himself well as an armored mailed knight & field commander, and finally, of course, wears the Crown of Aquillonia on a troubled brow.
Quite the 'build.' (npi)

 

[Xeviat]

Did 4e have a Ranger that primarily used a Versatile Weapon in two hands or heavy weapon and shield? I always thought it was all Two Weapon Drizzty type Rangers.

Depends on your power choice. TWFing was baked into powers so you could have a two handed or shield using ranger I think ... I'm not sure if they got shield profs now that I think about it ...

 

[Tony Vargas]

Depends on your power choice. TWFing was baked into powers so you could have a two handed or shield using ranger I think ... I'm not sure if they got shield profs now that I think about it ...

Not hard to acquire proficiencies, just hard to put them to good use with exploits that all assume TWFing or Archery. I don't recall Conan using a spiked shield a whole lot, either.

Ultimately, he didn't fit into D&D's paradigm of hyper-specializing non-casters, at all.

 

[Garthanos]

Not hard to acquire proficiencies, just hard to put them to good use with exploits that all assume TWFing or Archery. I don't recall Conan using a spiked shield a whole lot, either.

Seen the spiked shield on book covers...

 

[Garthanos]

Did 4e have a Ranger that primarily used a Versatile Weapon in two hands or heavy weapon and shield? I always thought it was all Two Weapon Drizzty type Rangers.

I created a custom build option for the Versatile weapon... if you use it in both hands its treated as one of those double weapons with no plus 1 to damage. (and you just use the twin weapon powers). There is precedent for doing that for a different weapon (a staff I think). Anyway its a very trivial addition.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Ultimately, he didn't fit into D&D's paradigm of hyper-specializing non-casters, at all.

Very true. In open combat he seemed to prefer the Versatile weapon and shield with the heaviest armor that wouldn't slow him down, but in most adventuring tales he had limited access to those things and made due with whatever he had.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Very true. In open combat he seemed to prefer the Versatile weapon and shield with the heaviest armor that wouldn't slow him down, but in most adventuring tales he had limited access to those things and made due with whatever he had.

That's another point: D&D has been notoriously armor-dependent from the get-go. A non-Thief /choosing/ no or light armor when exploring caverns or scouting about? Virtually unthinkable (and pointless, even w/o the armor, you'd still be bad at it). To enable Barbarians, Monks, swashbucklers, and the like, the system has played all sorts of games(npi) with class features, feats, special abilities and whatnot to make something other than heavy armor practical for a serious melee type.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It's possible. My group's issues with 4E were plentiful. We didn't play more than a few months before bailing. I won't say that I have exhaustive knowledge of the edition. Conceptually, I think what I said about the roles is valid. It's entirely possible it didn't play out that way, though, especially in the "revised" edition (actual name escapes me).

Nothing about the roles makes the Fighter not great at dishing out damage, and everything about the class makes them good at taking damage. Straight from the PHB. I’m not denying your experience, just saying it isn’t actually the result of how the class is built compared to the rest of the system.

Did 4e have a Ranger that primarily used a Versatile Weapon in two hands or heavy weapon and shield? I always thought it was all Two Weapon Drizzty type Rangers.

It had perfectly good single attack powers, and eventually some minor action attacks IIRC. Not as much shield support as I’d have liked, but no class can do everything.

But rethinking, I’d build him as a custom strong/tough subclass of Rogue more than anything else. He’s much too versatile and adaptable to be anything else in most editions.

Into TWF & Archery, was Conan? (I'd think fighter would suit him well - no primal invocations like the 4e barb, thanks - but with good choices of Background, Theme, PP, & ED to fit his story arc).

4e rangers don’t have to be one of those.

You say that like it's not the best idea D&D ever had.

It was pretty terrible, even ignoring how bad 3.5 feats are.

EDIT: to be clear, the problem is that the 3.5 fighter has literally nothing thematic in it that doesn’t come from feats, and there is no real direction in the feats, because you can take pretty much any feat in the game. It isn’t a class, it’s a framework for building a level based game with no classes. And not a great one.

It works in Star Wars Saga Edition because the classes have funneling that provides a clear sense of what broad sort of character they represent, and talents are class specific.

really, while he's called "The Barbarian" Conan's probably best modeled (in D&D or anything much resembling it) by 3.x style MCing. He starts out a literal Barbarian, learns more formal Fighting skills, becomes a thief and pirate, acquits himself well as an armored mailed knight & field commander, and finally, of course, wears the Crown of Aquillonia on a troubled brow.
Quite the 'build.' (npi)

Sounds like a class that is versatile and gets decent skills. So, almost anything but fighter.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Nothing about the roles makes the Fighter not great at dishing out damage, and everything about the class makes them good at taking damage. Straight from the PHB.

True enough.

4e rangers don’t have to be one of those. …

The PH ranger was archer or TWF. The Marauder & (e)Scout were TWF, the Hunter and, well, (e)Hunter were Archers. That leaves the Beastmaster, which is fine for, well, Beastmaster(Dar?), but not so great for Conan.

It had perfectly good single attack powers, and eventually some minor action attacks IIRC. Not as much shield support as I’d have liked, but no class can do everything.

I can't pretend I ever took a deep dive into the Ranger class, it was a striker, the role doesn't much interest me.
I do recall a /few/ single-attack powers, but that'd be really limiting your selections.
And, for what? Some woodsiness? Slightly higher DPR than the Fighter?

It was pretty terrible, even ignoring how bad 3.5 feats are.

I take all kinds of exception to that. The 3.x fighter design was downright elegant - can't say that about any other D&D class design. Extremely customizeable, and 3.5 fighter-bonus feats weren't bad - not whacktastic crazy-broken like everything having anything to do with Tier 1 casters, but /good/.

Sounds like a class that is versatile and gets decent skills. So, almost anything but fighter.

More than one class, was the point. You can't wring much versatility from a class system unless you start mixing classes.

3.x Conan, Barbarian for initial concept, Fighter to snag Great Cleave early, Scout or Rogue (and/or those first 3 levels of non-casting Ranger) for skills through his time with Red Sonja, back to fighter, or likely a PrC, in Aquilonia.