D&D 5E [5E] A Rogue "unnerf" - Extra Attack

[DND_Reborn]

While looking over the classes, it occured to me that Rogues are the only "battler" class (Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Monk, Ranger, and Rogue) that don't every get the Extra Attack feature. The other five classes all get it at 5th level. Is there some reason behind this? They are limited to one sneak attack per turn, so it isn't as though they could get more sneak attacks or something. I thought maybe one of their archetypes would get it at least, like College of Swords for Bards, but there wasn't anything there either.

While enough rogue nerfing has been going on, would it be crazy to unnerf them a bit and allow Extra Attack at some point? If not 5th level (like most others, except Bard), then 6th?

Thoughts, anyone?

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Extra attack would be a significant buff to rogues, since it would increase their chance of landing at least one hit in a combat round and getting to apply sneak attack.

The rogues biggest drawback compared to most other weapon using classes is that they don't have any limited use nova abilities. If I wanted to buff rogues I'd look to add some short-rest recharge abilities rather than making them a bit better at round-by-round all-day damage.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Two-weapon fighting is very appealing to Rogues, and probably brought up in all the character optimization builds. It's the reliable way for a Rogue to get an extra attack.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Two-weapon fighting is very appealing to Rogues, and probably brought up in all the character optimization builds. It's the reliable way for a Rogue to get an extra attack.

Sure, but that is at the expense of their other bonus action options, and doesn't allow them to add their ability score modifier to damage.

Maybe include Extra Attack, but make the Rogue specify when they are using their Sneak Attack and if that attack misses, the Sneak Attack is gone?

 

[coolAlias]

Currently, rogues usually give up their bonus action to make an off-hand attack if they need an extra chance at landing their sneak attack.

Granting them an extra attack would free up the bonus action for Cunning Action or whatever else, as well as allow ranged rogues that additional opportunity.

I don't think it would be majorly broken, but I also think it isn't necessary, especially since the rogue class features are already fantastic.

If you really want to buff them, give them a reliable way to use their reaction to attack for that sweet off-turn extra sneak attack potential.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Currently, rogues usually give up their bonus action to make an off-hand attack if they need an extra chance at landing their sneak attack.

Granting them an extra attack would free up the bonus action for Cunning Action or whatever else, as well as allow ranged rogues that additional opportunity.

I don't think it would be majorly broken, but I also think it isn't necessary, especially since the rogue class features are already fantastic.

If you really want to buff them, give them a reliable way to use their reaction to attack for that sweet off-turn extra sneak attack potential.

Allowing them a consistent way to try to sneak attack as part of their reaction would only increase the number of sneak attacks they might normally land. IMO that would be even stronger since now they could land a sneak attack on their turn and as a reaction on someone else's.

 

[CapnZapp]

They are limited to one sneak attack per turn, so it isn't as though they could get more sneak attacks or something.

They're indeed limited to one sneak attack per turn.

Turn, not round. You can sneak attack on your own turn and then again (using a reaction) on a monster's turn for a total of two sneak attacks each combat round.

(I am currently unaware of a way to gain more than two)

Problem is, outside of Haste, it's bloody difficult to set up consistently, even for a moderately accomplished minmaxer.

But it proves that the Rogue is indeed underpowered. In games with feats, that is. (The Rogue is probably quite good in games without feats)

 

[CapnZapp]

If you really want to buff them, give them a reliable way to use their reaction to attack for that sweet off-turn extra sneak attack potential.

This.

 

[Parmandur]

The problem with this is that Rogues already keep up very well in DPS from Sneak Attack. Fewer chances to roll, but the DPS over the long-haul is good for the Rogues. They do not need Nerfs, they do not need Buffs.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Again, the way to counter improved sneak attack potential damage is to make the rogue use the sneak attack feature as part of the attack before the roll is made. If you miss, you lose the sneak attack.

I am not looking for more ways to add potential to sneak attack, but by allowing rogues the extra attack feature at 5th and higher levels, you create more options. Perhaps the first attack is a shove to knock the target prone. If successful, the next attack is with advantage and can thus benefit from the sneak attack feature.

It also frees up the rogue to not have to rely on TWF to gain a second attack and frees up the bonus action for more uses, etc.

And yes, as you quoted me, they are limited to one per turn. I know they can get two per round via a reaction (such as an OA). We've even added a new feat, Reactive, which allows a character to make two reactions per round! (Oh, how the heavens tremble! LOL)

Off to work, I will be interested to read responses when I get home tonight.