D&D 5E A tweak for the Battlemaster fighter

Esker

Hero
Added Hunter's Mark and Vow of Enmity to the Vengeance Paladin (currently the only subclass considered; I suspect it will be the damagest one anyway)

Here's the updated sheet. The Vengeance Paladin has taken a commanding lead, though I think the assumptions I made were generous to them, and conservative for the Battlemaster (currently assumes the only maneuver is distracting strike, and that it is used to fairly anemic effect).
 

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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Added Hunter's Mark and Vow of Enmity to the Vengeance Paladin (currently the only subclass considered; I suspect it will be the damagest one anyway)

Here's the updated sheet. The Vengeance Paladin has taken a commanding lead, though I think the assumptions I made were generous to them, and conservative for the Battlemaster (currently assumes the only maneuver is distracting strike, and that it is used to fairly anemic effect).

The most commonly mentioned Battle Master maneuvers are: Precision Attack (turn a miss into a hit) and Riposte (reaction attack).
 

Esker

Hero
The most commonly mentioned Battle Master maneuvers are: Precision Attack (turn a miss into a hit) and Riposte (reaction attack).

Yeah, I actually modeled the impact of precision attack awhile back, but it required like, actual coding to get right (as opposed to a spreadsheet), since there's a little weirdness where assuming the average number of near misses yields better damage than you get with either more or fewer. But it's probably useful to plug in a rougher approximation anyway.

Riposte shouldn't be too hard to put in though.
 

Esker

Hero
@Esker Have you considered adding parameters based on ranger AC and failed concentration to more accurately assess hunter's mark damage?

Yeah, that'd be a good thing to do. I've so far avoided any reference to ability scores other than the attack stat, but that stuff obviously matters.
 


Quartz

Hero
Method Quartz was using when calculating bonus actions for Rangers that whole time (and he embedded it in the spreadsheet in the base damage as if it was automatic)? Right, a feat for the ranger.

The whole point of this thread is that while attacks are balanced across the classes if you only consider the baseline attacks, but once you include bonus attacks and reaction asttacks, the Battlemaster clearly loses. So I do the maths including them. How the PC gets those extra attacks is irrelevant.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
The whole point of this thread is that while attacks are balanced across the classes if you only consider the baseline attacks, but once you include bonus attacks and reaction asttacks, the Battlemaster clearly loses. So I do the maths including them. How the PC gets those extra attacks is irrelevant.

You've had a good half dozen replies to this claim already, which you've mostly ignored, but I will try once again.

It's not irrelevant, because it was impossible to get a bonus attack as a Ranger.

If something is impossible to get, it cannot be part of the baseline. They DO NOT GET a bonus action attack. Period. Your scenario, which you laid out for everyone to see, which you corrected people on multiple times, was impossible.

That is relevant. No matter how many times you simply declare it is irrelevant without an explanation for why it's irrelevant, it's still relevant. Because you cannot assume a baseline which does something impossible under the rules and then declare it the norm.

Now if you are willing to remove the all-day-concentration spell from your assumptions (because that's what is interfering with the ranger's use of spells which can actually grant a bonus action attack) I'd be more willing to listen. But as long as you're including in your baseline something which directly conflicts with that ranger's use of it's abilities to get a bonus action attack, IT'S HIGHLY RELEVANT.

And if you're willing to say, "OK I messed up in that initial scenario because I forgot it was a concentration spell or I forgot that a feat was the only way they had to get that bonus action while concentrating on that spell" I'd also listen. Though of course then we need to add back in the fighter feats - which they get more of than the ranger.

But as you've refused to face the question at all, and you just keep fiating over the issue by simply declaring it irrelevant with zero evidence to back up the claim it lacks relevance and a heaping ton of responses demonstrating why it's deeply relevant, it's become difficult to take you seriously. I am starting to suspect you've been trolling us all, because it's like you keep saying "The sky is green - can we stop talking about sky color now because the sky is green because I've said the sky is green which means the sky must be green."
 



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