What is the essence of D&D

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Garthanos]

Me: Utterly unabashed about it... indeed.

The Wonders of Magic
Few D&D adventures end without something magical
happening. Whether helpful or harmful, magic appears
frequently in the life of an adventurer, and it is the focus
of chapters 10 and 11.

Me:So far so good.... and then

In the worlds of Dungeons & Dragons, practitioners
of magic are rare, set apart from the masses of people
by their extraordinary talent.

Me: Pretty sure every heroic archetype should be extraordinary
and as for rarity... the adversaries in the monster manual
do not need to be "A Fighter" ... they are a human soldier or
the orcish warrior.

Common folk might see evidence of magic on a regular basis, but it’s usually
minor—a fantastic monster, a visibly answered prayer,
a wizard walking through the streets with an animated
shield guardian as a bodyguard.

Me: No problem really...

Me: But then we have reinforced dependence and superiority on a stick

For adventurers, though, magic is key to their survival.
Without the healing magic of clerics and paladins, adventurers
would quickly succumb to their wounds. Without
the uplifting magical support of bards and clerics, warriors
might be overwhelmed by powerful foes. Without
the sheer magical power and versatility of wizards and
druids, every threat would be magnified tenfold.

 

[Garthanos]

Well, sometimes it's like Charlie Brown and the football.

I assume, because we are all honorable gamers, that the topic won't come up this time.

And then I'm flat on my back, staring at the sky.

lowkey13 the Charlie Brown of posters...

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Guest 6801328]

and magic items were little more than fungible baseline gear and fashion accessories.

I'm not going to get into the 4e debate, but I thought this line was interesting.

I've thought a lot about why magic items are so awesome, and why (if they're so awesome) I don't like magic shops and DDAL treasure points. (Or their equivalent in other games, including in video games.)

What I think is going on, at least in my own little brain, is that the abilities (or power) you get from "found" magic items is inherently different from abilities/power you get as part of standard game progression. It feels like "bonus" power, beyond what you are supposed to have at whatever level you are.

I'm not saying it very eloquently, but does that make sense?

So it wouldn't have to be magic items. It could be that as a quest reward a powerful NPC grants you some ability. That, to me, would feel as special and cool as a magic item. And I think it's for the same reason: it makes my character just a little bit better than the baseline for the game.

Of course, variable rewards have all kinds of troublesome impact on supposedly fair and balanced games (e.g., DDAL). But those aren't design goals I care about a whole lot.

 

[Lanefan]

lowkey13 the Charlie Brown of posters...

Does that mean 'Garthanos' is some language's translation of 'Lucy'?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Hey everyone!
Y'all can discuss whatever you want, but just as a reminder, this is supposed to be about the commonality in all D&D.
You know, the things that bring us together. Not ... the other stuff.

Yeah, I acknowledged, up-front, that I was going to be cynical about it. But, I'm afraid that - thanks to the rejection of the 4e outlier - their just isn't any such commonality. At least, not a meaningful one, not the "continuity" you posited.

You are bound to have them saying 4e lacked the essence... Not sure how you could not expect that to happen.

Really, the litmus test for something being the Core & Essence of D&D prettymuch /has/ to be that it be somehow absent from - or, at the very least, severely lacking in - 4e.

Class/Level? Hps? Killing things & taking their stuff?
Can't be the core of D&D, because 4e had 'em, and it just wasn't D&D.

For that matter, whatever it is, it prettymuch /has/ to be in PF1, because it /was/ D&D, just w/o the trade dress.

So all those settings and copyrightable/trademarkable proper nouns and other IP?
Not it.

 

[Garthanos]

Does that mean 'Garthanos' is some language's translation of 'Lucy'?

I am not the one pulling the ball LOL but I admit predicting the issue and watching quietly while he ran up to take the shot.

It could be a greekification of Garth which means guard to protect or maybe garden?
but its actually a greekification of Garthan means straight/true one in a homebrew dragon language.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I thought this line was interesting.
I've thought a lot about why magic items are so awesome, and why (if they're so awesome) I don't like magic shops and DDAL treasure points. (Or their equivalent in other games, including in video games.)
What I think is going on, at least in my own little brain, is that the abilities (or power) you get from "found" magic items is inherently different from abilities/power you get as part of standard game progression. It feels like "bonus" power, beyond what you are supposed to have at whatever level you are.
I'm not saying it very eloquently, but does that make sense?

Yes. Perfect sense.
As MM put it when introducing 5e, "magic items make you just better."

But, 3.x/PF had wealth/level & make/buy and still retained the core & essence of really being D&D. The difference was that those made/bought, part of level progression, magic items were still /very important & powerful/, not fungible, not just accessories that do something cool-but-not-that-important.

So it wouldn't have to be magic items. It could be that as a quest reward a powerful NPC grants you some ability. That, to me, would feel as special and cool as a magic item. And I think it's for the same reason: it makes my character just a little bit better than the baseline for the game.

As long as it's some /magical/ ability, sure.
Classic D&D had many examples (albeit, mostly in modules, not rulebooks) of arbitrary magical abilities granted by interacting with the environment ("I drink from the glowing pool!") or getting a whammy put on you by some uber-being (god or devil or high-level wizard or whatever) for good, ill, or some combination.

Of course, variable rewards have all kinds of troublesome impact on supposedly fair and balanced games (e.g., DDAL). But those aren't design goals I care about a whole lot.

Indeed, unfair & imbalanced /is/ arguably a necessary part of the essence of D&D, of Magic being Really Magical, because fair & balanced-with-the-mundane just ain't magical.

 

[billd91]

Hey everyone!

Y'all can discuss whatever you want, but just as a reminder, this is supposed to be about the commonality in all D&D.

You know, the things that bring us together. Not ... the other stuff.

Eh. If someone was very specific about the essence of D&D - specific enough that some editions had it and others didn't - it could certainly cut out other editions. Just because you're seeing some answers you don't like doesn't mean people aren't sincerely answering the question.