Consent in Gaming - Free Guidebook

[S'mon]

I don’t mind them labeling it intolerant. I care when they don’t allow them to speak. Even intolerant people have a right to speak. I support hitler having the right to publicly call for the execution of Jews, as long as I am safely give my rebuttal argument and be heard.

Hmm. I'm ok with specific calls to violence being banned. Both "You should attack/kill those guys!" and "Won't someone rid me of this troublesome Malcolm X?" type rhetoric.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Maybe I am off base here but looking at all this brings just one thought to mind.

If a person actually needs this book to tell them how to act then I do not want that person in my gaming group.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Hmm. I'm ok with specific calls to violence being banned. Both "You should attack/kill those guys!" and "Won't someone rid me of this troublesome Malcolm X?" type rhetoric.

The problem being the inevitable slippery slope. Makes perfect sense to ban statements of blatant violence, but we are human beings, we inevitably carry it to some stupid extreme far beyond what the first ban ever considered or even imagined.

That being said I pretty much support banning/limiting/controlling/somethinging public statements directing violence.

 

[Morrus]

I support hitler having the right to publicly call for the execution of Jews,

Things like this are completely unacceptable. I don't care how deeply you feel about freeze peach, if you say something like that again I will ask you to leave. Read the room, and don't be so tone deaf in future.

 

[Celebrim]

It really sucks for that person to have to walk away from the game, but in this situation, the content is not inappropriate for a general audience, including young adults or even older children. Nobody is singling out the individual. There is no bullying. It is just an unfortunate coincidence that the adventure content conflicts with that personal phobia/past trauma. Hopefully there is another game being run at that time the person can join in on--I'd certainly speak to the other DMs and try to find a spot for this person. But I don't expect a DM to scrap that adventure and have a back-up ready to go.

More importantly, nothing about this is actually unsafe.

Equating, "I had a traumatic experience with water and now references to water make me afraid.", to a situation like "The DM is graphically describing my PC being raped and I get the feeling that this in some way titillates him or fetishizes me as a person." is entirely unhelpful, and treating the two situations as the same and imagining that because there might be a solution for #1 that there is some solution for #2 other than getting the heck out of that situation, is entirely unhelpful. And acting like the DM who prepared a scenario that involved water monsters and the risk of drowning is morally equivalent to the second situation, is entirely unhelpful. And really, why anyone would think that equating a table top RPG like D&D or Star Wars to a community that frequently fetishizes rape, degradation, humiliation, and other non-consensuality, and has elaborate rules around not having the pretend rape be actual rape and the pretend torture be actual torture and so you think that basically what we need to do is just import those guidelines to your average social gaming scene is beyond me.

Like I'm supposed to be thinking that the RPG scene is more 'rapey' than the BDSM scene or something? That we nerds do a worse job of representing women in edifying ways than say pornography or something?

Once again, not at any table I've ever been familiar with. Any table I set down at and they want to know my "safe word" and gives me some sort of check list, I'm leaving right there. I don't scare very easy, but that would get my Spidey senses tingling in a hurry. If my daughter goes to a new RPG group, and she tells me that they asked for a "safe word", I'm going to be counseling her that probably isn't going to be a safe place. Normal human social interaction doesn't involve that sort of thing. And it's not like "I'm scared of spiders" isn't something that can come up in normal conversation - my wife has a freaking PhD in entomology, my living room has at times had more than your average number of hand sized tarantulas and Egyptian scorpions in it. We'll deal with those problems when they come up by the normal process of humans respecting each other as people, thanks very much.

I totally get that there is evil in the world. I totally get that there are predators out there. But for crying out loud, a guy that triggers someone with spiders, drowning, or googly eyed kittens isn't the problem, and some sort of framework is probably not the best way to handle that, least of all one that encourages you to see this as a victim/abuser situation.

 

[MNblockhead]

Maybe I am off base here but looking at all this brings just one thought to mind.

If a person actually needs this book to tell them how to act then I do not want that person in my gaming group.

I think there is value in books that raise awareness of issues that can make people uncomfortable in gaming groups. I am also a big fan of etiquette guides and courses and have put my older son through an etiquette course. Well-intentioned people can still offend. It is helpful to define and promulgate some general rules of behavior. I just think booklets like this one are not only impractical, but really not possible to implement if read prescriptively.

But it would be even worse if a misstep leads to immediate ostracism. Rules of etiquette are kinder than laws. They are meant to help create us function in polite society. Repeatedly running afoul of rules of etiquette will have social consequences, but good etiquette requires overlooking the occasional slip up.

I don't think all rules are obvious. Especially since they can very from group to group, venue to venue. It is helpful to state them up front. For example, I have a strict no real-life politics discussion during my games. It is almost inevitable that even long-time members of my group will run afoul of this rule. I don't boot them, I just remind everyone of the rule. Some people can't accept that or just can't seem to suppress the urge to talk politics. They don't stay in the group. But you need to state the rule and give folks the benefit of a doubt on the occasional slip up.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think there is value in books that raise awareness of issues that can make people uncomfortable in gaming groups. I am also a big fan of etiquette guides and courses and have put my older son through an etiquette course. Well-intentioned people can still offend. It is helpful to define and promulgate some general rules of behavior. I just think booklets like this one are not only impractical, but really not possible to implement if read prescriptively.

But it would be even worse if a misstep leads to immediate ostracism. Rules of etiquette are kinder than laws. They are meant to help create us function in polite society. Repeatedly running afoul of rules of etiquette will have social consequences, but good etiquette requires overlooking the occasional slip up.

I don't think all rules are obvious. Especially since they can very from group to group, venue to venue. It is helpful to state them up front. For example, I have a strict no real-life politics discussion during my games. It is almost inevitable that even long-time members of my group will run afoul of this rule. I don't boot them, I just remind everyone of the rule. Some people can't accept that or just can't seem to suppress the urge to talk politics. They don't stay in the group. But you need to state the rule and give folks the benefit of a doubt on the occasional slip up.

The people who need this either won't read it or JacktheRabbit is right.

A single page print out should be sufficient if you want to right down the rules to cover any unspoken expectations.

Eg
1. No Gnomes
2. No Sexism
3. No violence (DM is an exception in regard to thrown dice boxes)
4. No CN asshattery
5. No stealing off other PCs
6. No PVP combat unless its forced (dominate person etc)
7. Reasonable standard of hygiene
8. No excessive swearing
9. Don't be a creep
10. No Paladins

 

[MGibster]

Equating, "I had a traumatic experience with water and now references to water make me afraid.", to a situation like "The DM is graphically describing my PC being raped and I get the feeling that this in some way titillates him or fetishizes me as a person." is entirely unhelpful, and treating the two situations as the same and imagining that because there might be a solution for #1 that there is some solution for #2 other than getting the heck out of that situation, is entirely unhelpful.

But isn't the opt in system is as presented in Consent in Gaming equating those things? The RPG Consent List at the back of the booklet lists natural disasters (flooding?) in the Mental and Physical Health category sharing the space with sexual assault, genocide, and heatstroke. (Seriously, does anyone think heatstroke belongs on the same list as sexual assault, self harm, and torture?) From my point of view, it goes without saying that I'm not going to introduce sexual assault into a game without talking about it first. But not in a million years would I think I had to worry about heatstroke being a source of trauma in a game where we're routinely hacking off limbs and searing the meat off of bones with fireball spells.

 

[Celebrim]

But isn't the opt in system is as presented in Consent in Gaming equating those things? The RPG Consent List at the back of the booklet lists natural disasters (flooding?) in the Mental and Physical Health category sharing the space with sexual assault, genocide, and heatstroke. (Seriously, does anyone think heatstroke belongs on the same list as sexual assault, self harm, and torture?) From my point of view, it goes without saying that I'm not going to introduce sexual assault into a game without talking about it first. But not in a million years would I think I had to worry about heatstroke being a source of trauma in a game where we're routinely hacking off limbs and searing the meat off of bones with fireball spells.

Pretty much that's one of my complaints in a nut shell. Some of these things are not like the other.

In game sexual assault, particularly backed up by the possibility that the person doing it may be 'getting their rocks off' is a totally different class of things than "things that might trigger a hypothetical person with serious emotional issues related to that thing". Like you, I think it goes without saying that rape isn't going to be a focus of play, and if it ever were to be a focus of play then I'd only start a story line like that by saying, "Hey, so I'm thinking of a game which involves some seriously wacked adult situations, like rape, and I'm planning to handle that as tastefully as a I can, but I recognize that this is serious topic of general distastefulness to pretty much everyone."

I am never going to think, "I can't introduce scenarios with intense heat because somewhat might have had heatstroke and that was intensely traumatic experience for them." And if someone were to actually say, "That heatstroke experience I had was so intensely traumatic that anything that reminds me of it tends to cause psychotic episodes for me.", I'd probably be like, "That sounds serious. I'm not qualified to provide that sort of therapy and emotional support. Role-playing is often used as part of a clinical therapy treatment, and if you are having such serious emotional issues telling fantasy from reality, I'm not sure I'm comfortable engaging in recreational role-play with you. However, if you are willing to tough it out and risk it, then I can say that I promise to give you a supportive and safe environment. I can't however promise that you won't undergo stress at times, and if you need to take a break, I'd totally understand. Your call."

But you know what, that would be a really unique and unusual circumstance I think. And really, most people I know who have had legitimately traumatic experiences don't have that problem with getting triggered easily in that way, and frankly I would not encourage anyone to expect that just because they have had traumatic experiences that being actually triggered is in any way normal, expected, or healthy. Stressed, sure. Feeling intense emotion, sure. But most adults have coping mechanisms to handle intense emotional experiences, and some fraction of my players are playing precisely to engender safe but intense emotional experiences of various sorts which would be rare and entirely unsafe in real life - which is pretty much the same reason many of us read novels or watch movies.

Intense sexual experiences are however generally off limits at tables I've played at. Or really, sexual experiences at all, precisely because - aside from often being distasteful - that tends to blur reality and fantasy in a way that makes a social situation not feel safe.

But again, we are in perfect agreement that 'sexual assault' ought not be remotely in the same category. It not only trivializes the issue, but I think would tend to creep out the majority of my female friends to see it treated like that. It sure as heck wouldn't feel 'inclusive'.

 

[S'mon]

It not only trivializes the issue, but I think would tend to creep out the majority of my female friends to see it treated like that. It sure as heck wouldn't feel 'inclusive'.

While most players of both sexes don't want that stuff in a D&D game, IME the ones who do have been disproportionately female, and the freaked-out disproportionately male.