What is the essence of D&D

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Oofta]

The recession certainly didnt help.

If you think a Sword and Board fighter in 4e plays at all like a wizard I just do not know what to say. No really.
Vast difference... there is similarity you get a choice of doing something big bold and climactic once in a while.

I played several different classes. Wizards generally had longer range, but everyone had the same basic mix of daily awesome, encounter good and at will if you ran out of the others. Style just depended on role (control vs defender vs striker, etc) and options.

Anyway, I don't really want to hash out a dead edition. I just posted to expand on what I an several others experienced.

 

[Garthanos]

To the extent that you wish to consider that, you have to pay attention to what people are saying; you see it here.

It doesnt do attrition combat well... is attrition combat the essence of D&D? Where as Heroic center piece battles are definitely not since a spell caster could one shot an encounter or simply decide we win In many editions (paladins even seem able to in 5e) ARE you sure that doesn't relate to primacy of magic? If you take away the trivializing of otherwise big battles....

 

[Garthanos]

I played several different classes. Wizards generally had longer range, but everyone had the same basic mix of daily awesome, encounter good and at will if you ran out of the others.

Yup similar frequency to contribute but not at all contributing the same things nor accomplishing the same effects. Fighters cannot have big climactic things.... it steps on the toes of casters by any other name would smell well the same.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I'm not saying 4E was a bad game (although I admit I burned out on it, especially high level play), but to me it didn't feel like D&D. I don't think that has anything to do with magic vs martial, it was the basic structure that changed. I understand why they did it, they were trying to have better balance between classes.

It's easy to see how some people would react to that by saying, "Yeah, they're balanced, which is good, but the cost of doing that is that the classes that used to feel weak don't feel the same. I liked the old way, maybe just because it's what I'm used to, even if it was imbalanced."

And others would respond, "You obviously just think those weak classes should stay weak!"

 

[Oofta]

Yup similar frequency to contribute but not at all contributing the same things nor accomplishing the same effects. Fighters cannot have big climactic things.... it steps on the toes of casters by any other name would smell well the same.

Really? Because I remember differently.

Anyway, have a good one.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Guest 6801328]

Fighters cannot have big climactic things.... it steps on the toes of casters by any other name would smell well the same.

I....I....I just can't do this anymore. The stress is tearing me apart.

You and Tony are right. For years now the rest of us...almost everybody except the two of you, really...have been secretly meeting and plotting how to keep those lowly fighters in their places. "Nothing but a basic attack roll every round. No cool abilities. Nothing that might steal the limelight from the wizards, who are really the Essence of D&D."

Mearles pushed back at first, but...well, even though I'm coming clean there are something things I can't expose. I have a family, after all.

I've carried this weight for too long, and just can't carry it any longer. I'm sorry.

Oh, the shame. The shame.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Also, like the Apple Newton, the problem wasn't the primacy of magic.

Any sufficiently immature technology is indistinguishable from cheap parlor tricks.

 

[Campbell]

My tastes have changed and Fourth Edition is no longer the game for me. However, I will say this: it is not just the case that some people disliked the game, but that it become socially unacceptable to like the game to the point where I was personally subjected to harassment at game stores for trying to buy Fourth Edition books. It was almost enough to get me to leave the hobby. After Essentials hit I moved further into indie games in part to escape that climate.

It's also the case that in completely unrelated topics many people continue to slam a game that has not been culturally relevant for years. I do not think this shows a good face for our hobby. It honestly makes it difficult for me to engage in this community.

I respect those who do not like the game for whatever reason. It's the continued insistence by some parts of the community that liking or having liked the game means there is something wrong with you and you are not a real part of the community that I find distasteful.