D&D 5E Dungeons and Dragons (5th Edition) Class Tier List – 2019

[Parmandur]

I think Valour is the strongest Bard subclass.

Swords is flashy but their inspiration uses are ultimately weaker than standard. Valour gives 1 good alternative use but more importantly has much higher AC.

Their extra attack is also good to make up for a lack of combat cantrips as Mockery is situational.

They are both solid Fishes. The Blade Bards cool thing is that their weapon is their Arcane Focus, which helps with material components in combat. With a Longsword and no shield...lots of Gishy Shennanigans to be had.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So, every math analysis I’ve seen that compares rogues and Fighters with feats turned on, for some reason doesn’t increase the number of SA per encounter the Rogue can get by having Sentinel and/or Mage Slayer, and I find that odd.

Rogues getting new ways to trigger Reaction attacks can easily add 2-3 SA attacks per 5 rounds of combat.

Skulker can make stealth so reliable that rogues nearly always have Advantage, regardless of the rest of the party, for the ranger rogues.

Magic Initiate with Booming Blade on a Swashbuckler is extremely effective at getting that extra thunder damage from the target moving. IME, often nearly every round.

All on a character that can be built to be next to impossible to deal serious damage to, or pin down, or get away from, and is absurdly good at skill use.

 

[Zardnaar]

It's because it's conditional damage.

Booming blade isn't really that good vs hit en harder

 

[Blue]

I think Valour is the strongest Bard subclass.

Swords is flashy but their inspiration uses are ultimately weaker than standard. Valour gives 1 good alternative use but more importantly has much higher AC.

Their extra attack is also good to make up for a lack of combat cantrips as Mockery is situational.

I wasn't so keen on the swords bard until I saw one played. I am playing a tanky paladin with plate and shield, but she regularly out-ACs me. But to be fair the adventures we've been running allow a lot of short rests, so she usually has all four (18 CHR) of her uses for any particular combat. If we had less short rests and it had to get spread more, it might not be as good.

 

[Mort]

I wasn't so keep on the swords bard until I saw one played. I am playing a tanky paladin with plate and shield, but she regularly out-ACs me. But to be fair the adventures we've been running allow a lot of short rests, so she usually has all four (18 CHR) of her uses for any particular combat. If we had less short rests and it had to get spread more, it might not be as good.

The swords bard in my game is similar. AC 16 but doesn't get hit often (of course he also keeps close to the BM fighter with protection style).

One thing I have noticed with the swords bard. He uses inspiration for offense and defense a lot; doesn't have quite as much left for the rest of the group.

 

[Blue]

The swords bard in my game is similar. AC 16 but doesn't get hit often (of course he also keeps close to the BM fighter with protection style).

One thing I have noticed with the swords bard. He uses inspiration for offense and defense a lot; doesn't have quite as much left for the rest of the group.

Agreed. Same thing here - our Swords Bard is a lot greedier in their Bardic Inspiration. Less support, more direct action.

Which I think is an interesting take, a bit deviant to the other bards and in a hybrid niche.

I'm currently playing a Glamour Bard in a different game. He's all support. Except for that one time at band camp, er no, that one time someone tried to feed him poisoned food. He's a halfling with a "Hospitality is sacred" trait, and we literally hit 7th level at the end of last session. So he pulled out his new Polymorph spell, turned himself into a giant ape and taught our traitorous host some manners. Other than that, he's always been support. Even that polymorph is usually used on party members with low HPs.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The Class Tier lists that developed around 3e and PF1 mostly involved showing the class balance impact of full casting, prepared casting, and versatility to different encounters

Different problems, combat or otherwise, yes. The first two 3.5 Tiers prettymuch were by casting method: higher day-to-day versatility of prepped casting edging out the higher round-to-round versatility of spontaneous. Third Tier was, IMHO, more where class designs should have been aimed: good versatility, but not always dominant - a party of different Tier 3 classes could potentially all participate meaningfully, most of the time, not just swing a spotlight around. Tier 4 were too-narrow(suitable for spotlight-balance), but not deficient, 5 deficient, and 6 reserved for mechanically-borked class designs - again, to simplify.

The OP's look nothing like that, rather they read like a newb's guide to picking a fun first class while they learn the game - and an over-enthusiastic one, at that.

Since 5e neo-Vancian combines The versatility of prepped & spontaneous casting, it virtually re-defines Tier 1, while leaving it to the same classic classes. Tier 2 obviously belongs to the remaining (spontaneous or 'known') full casters. Tier 3 to fractional casters. And, unless you count unfortunate non-casting sub-classes, thats about it.
Relative to 3.5 a rising tide that's floated all boats - and miraculously raised some sunken ones, too.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

What bothers me about Valor Bard is that Lore Bard can get green-flame blade at 6th level and deal more melee damage than Valor for the next 4 to 8 levels (depending on when Valor Bard decides to pick up green-flame blade themselves, thereby improving their life but virtually eliminating their future usage of Extra Attack), while only needing Cha and Dex. Valor Bard additionally needs Str to wield a two-hander (sacrificing a shield) to get the most out of their damage.

Before someone says the problem is with *green-flame blade"--I understand why you would say that, but I think it needs to exist as an option in the game (for Lore Bard as well as others). Maybe Valor just needs a combat style like Swords.

 

[ad_hoc]

Before someone says the problem is with *green-flame blade"--I understand why you would say that, but I think it needs to exist as an option in the game (for Lore Bard as well as others). Maybe Valor just needs a combat style like Swords.

I disagree. The game was just fine before it. Getting a cantrip costs less than getting the extra attack feature. Lore Bard doesn't need it. They can take a different attack cantrip at 6th if they want, like other casters.

That being said, Valour is still better. It's not the extra attack that is the highlight. It's medium armour and shield. That AC bump is huge. Combat Inspiration is also strong. Cutting Words is good, but so is the base use of inspiration and Combat Inspiration makes it better.

 

[Zardnaar]

I disagree. The game was just fine before it. Getting a cantrip costs less than getting the extra attack feature. Lore Bard doesn't need it. They can take a different attack cantrip at 6th if they want, like other casters.

That being said, Valour is still better. It's not the extra attack that is the highlight. It's medium armour and shield. That AC bump is huge. Combat Inspiration is also strong. Cutting Words is good, but so is the base use of inspiration and Combat Inspiration makes it better.

AC bump really only matters if you plan on being on the front lines.

Valor bard us really only good with high rolled stats something like 16,16,14,14 or higher as your best 4 stats.

It's not the only class that has that problem. Clerics are in a similar boat unless you go pure caster.

It's why the hexblade exists as well. Reduced MAD.