D&D 5E Fixing the fighter (I know...)

[Krachek]

[/QUOTE]

If you want to be more than Conan, play a different class.

More than Conan! You mean Gandalf is more than Conan? Different certainly, but more I doubt.

 

[Hussar]

Not even close. a t rex has AC 13 and 136 HP.

• Multiattack. The tyrannosaurus makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its tail. It can't make both attacks against the same target.
• Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +10 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: (4d12 + 7) piercing damage. If the target is a Medium or smaller creature, it is grappled (escape DC 17). Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained, and the tyrannosaurus can't bite another target
• Tail. Melee Weapon Attack: +10 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: (3d8 + 7) bludgeoning damage.

A level 20 champion with GWM is gonna have about 224 HP and about a +11 to hit. So pretty much every attack is going to hit, even if the fighter has disadvantage from being grappled by the aforementioned bite. Even without action surge, there are 4 attacks per round doing about 2d6+5 each. Then factor every hit from an 18-20 is a critical hit. And then action surge. I'm not even talking about if the fighter would have magic items by then (which they would, and is another advantage of the fighter--being able to use the most magic items out of the box). At an average of 48 damage per round, with an action surge, that's 96 points of damage just in the first round before the T rex can even attack (the fighter is going to have a 20 DEX by then, which is a +5 modifier to AC and initiative over the T Rex). Dead in round two without even having to use the second action surge.

Gonna be a snack? Not even close. And if a person with nothing more than a two handed sword can devastate a T REX, that's as heroic as almost every other heroic act from mythology or folklore.

Nice how my example of taking on 10 giants at once has morphed into taking on a single t-rex. Never minding completely ignoring that dragon. I'd rather HOPE that a 20th level fighter can take on a single CR 8 creature. It would be rather sad if he couldn't.

Goalposts on roller skates as usual.

Although, I do have to admit, seeing at least one person in the thread recognize the references to swimming was nice.

Hang on though. How does our Fighter have a 20 Str, 20 Dex AND GWM? 2 feats for the Str, 3 feats for the Dex bump and GWM. Ok, right, he could do it. So much for that whole load of malarkey about being able to use feats for non-combat stuff though. :/ Funny how that always seems to be the case. When we need out of combat abilities, oh, the ASI's will cover that. When we want combat bonuses, oh the ASI's will cover that too.

Yeah, there's very little interest in any real discussion here. Nice to see some things just haven't changed.

((Goes off to unwatch the thread))

 

[Tony Vargas]

Okay, first of all, there is no such thing as "more than Conan".

Cormac mac Art was "Mightier than Conan!" ... said so right on the cover.

Perseus may have been a rather item heavy/dependent example

• The helmet of Hades to make him invisible
• A magical bag to contain Medusas head (might have actually maintained its ability to stone).
• Winged sandals.
• The mirrored shield. (let it redirect spell attacks for fun)
• And lets call it a Vorpal Blade

Probably the most D&D-like hero in Greek Mythology.
May have been BC, but he was quite the Xmass tree.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Nice how my example of taking on 10 giants at once has morphed into taking on a single t-rex. Never minding completely ignoring that dragon.

While BA is great for maintaining relevance in the face of level disparity, it does make being outnumbered tell heavily.

As for the dragon, 100 archers killed it.

Hang on though. How does our Fighter have a 20 Str, 20 Dex AND GWM? 2 feats for the Str, 3 feats for the Dex bump and GWM. Ok, right, he could do it. So much for that whole load of malarkey about being able to use feats for non-combat stuff though. :/ Funny how that always seems to be the case. When we need out of combat abilities, oh, the ASI's will cover that. When we want combat bonuses, oh the ASI's will cover that too.

There's a lot of that, too, when evaluating classes. For a not too dramatic example the Fighter class can be said to be better at fighting than ranger or paladin, since it offers more Combat Styles than either if them. But, once you roll up a fighter, pally or ranger, you only have one Combat Style.

 

[Salthorae]

Nice how my example of taking on 10 giants at once has morphed into taking on a single t-rex. Never minding completely ignoring that dragon. I'd rather HOPE that a 20th level fighter can take on a single CR 8 creature. It would be rather sad if he couldn't.

Goalposts on roller skates as usual.

Although, I do have to admit, seeing at least one person in the thread recognize the references to swimming was nice.

Hang on though. How does our Fighter have a 20 Str, 20 Dex AND GWM? 2 feats for the Str, 3 feats for the Dex bump and GWM. Ok, right, he could do it. So much for that whole load of malarkey about being able to use feats for non-combat stuff though. :/ Funny how that always seems to be the case. When we need out of combat abilities, oh, the ASI's will cover that. When we want combat bonuses, oh the ASI's will cover that too.

Yeah, there's very little interest in any real discussion here. Nice to see some things just haven't changed.

((Goes off to unwatch the thread))

Two points - that fighter's only used 6 of their 7 ASI for Stat boosts and GWM so they could still have one for non-combat stuff!

a Deadly encounter for a 20th level party has an XP threshold of 12,700. 2x Storm giants and an XP threshold value of 40,000 for a group less than 3 PC's.

So yes, within BA I would expect a 20th level fighter to lose to 10 Storm giants. But they might seriously be able to take out 10 Hill giants as they should drop 1 every other round or so and should probably be able to take their beatings that do hit.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Nice how my example of taking on 10 giants at once has morphed into taking on a single t-rex. Never minding completely ignoring that dragon. I'd rather HOPE that a 20th level fighter can take on a single CR 8 creature. It would be rather sad if he couldn't.

Goalposts on roller skates as usual.

I brought up the T. rex and dragon examples long before you even posted. So if there’s goal post shifting, it’s from you.
Also, you were the one to claim a fighter can’t do anything heroic and legendary. We’re talking about the whole class, not just low levels. A fighter can not only beat, but handedly beat a T. rex by themselves. That’s heroic and literally the stuff legends and myths were created on. Who cares the level. If they can do it at some point, they can do it. And regular people can’t. So hopefully you can stop with this nonsense argument that fighters aren’t allowed to do anything heroic.

Although, I do have to admit, seeing at least one person in the thread recognize the references to swimming was nice.

Hang on though. How does our Fighter have a 20 Str, 20 Dex AND GWM? 2 feats for the Str, 3 feats for the Dex bump and GWM. Ok, right, he could do it. So much for that whole load of malarkey about being able to use feats for non-combat stuff though. :/ Funny how that always seems to be the case. When we need out of combat abilities, oh, the ASI's will cover that. When we want combat bonuses, oh the ASI's will cover that too.

Yeah, there's very little interest in any real discussion here. Nice to see some things just haven't changed.

((Goes off to unwatch the thread))

those are two different arguments. Can fighters get out of combat functionality, and can fighters do heroic things. The example I gave did focus on combat to show you just how easy it would be for a fighter to do that. I’m sure if I went a couple out of combat feats, and even lower levels, the fighter could still win.

But it does appear you’re right about little interest in having a real discussion. I’m sorry you’re unable to do so.

 

[FrogReaver]

Two points - that fighter's only used 6 of their 7 ASI for Stat boosts and GWM so they could still have one for non-combat stuff!

a Deadly encounter for a 20th level party has an XP threshold of 12,700. 2x Storm giants and an XP threshold value of 40,000 for a group less than 3 PC's.

So yes, within BA I would expect a 20th level fighter to lose to 10 Storm giants. But they might seriously be able to take out 10 Hill giants as they should drop 1 every other round or so and should probably be able to take their beatings that do hit.

I’m still waiting on you to acknowledge the that the rogue is both better in combat and out of combat than the fighter you proposed as covering all pillars.

I think you said that would change things for you - obviously was hyperbole

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Cormac mac Art was "Mightier than Conan!" ... said so right on the cover.

You know what they say about covers.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Things I add to fighters (once again, shamelessly stolen from AiME):
Level 3 (to all fighters):
Weapon of Legacy
Chose a weapon you own. It become bound to your special destiny, an instrument of fate. Can transfer the legacy to another weapon after 8h.
At level 3, you have advantage on Persuasion and Intimidation while carrying the weapon.
At level 7, the weapon cannot be broken nor lost. You always know where to find the weapon if its within 10 miles of you.
At level 14, choose 2 types of enemies. As an action, you can draw you weapon and all enemies of these types must save against Str or Dex+8+prof or frightened until they make a save as a free action on their turn.

At level 6 and 14 choose one of the following options:

- Improved concoctions:
Gain prof. in Medecine and Herbalism kit or Alchemist tools. When using a potion that restores HP, you can reroll 2 of the die. Antitoxin cure the poisoned effect when you use it and give resistance to poison damage for the duration.

- Well traveled
Can speak and be understood in every humanoid languages.

- Old Enemy
Choose a foe, preferably one you personally have fought or your people regularly battle against. You gain that foe’s language and have advantage on Charisma (Deception), and Wisdom (Insight) ability checks involving them.

- Officer
When you take this mark, you gain four Command dice, which are d6s. A Command die is expanded when you use it. You regain all of your Command dice when you finish a short or long rest. As a bonus action you can give a Command die to any ally who serves your liege-lord, is within 60 feet and in line of sight. That ally can roll their Command die and add the number rolled to any ability check, attack or damage roll.

- Minstrel's Tales
You deed have passed into songs. When entering a non-hostile territory or settlement, roll a d6. On a 5+, any humanoid regards you has a friendly acquaintance deserving of help, until you give it a reason to change their opinion of you.

- Reward
You are gifted a common, uncommon or rare magic item of your choice.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

double post