Are you sitting comfortably?
Don't judge a book?
Reminded me of Beowullf ++ if I recall been a while
Out of curiosity, why are you quoting me??? With Remarkable Athlete you can already do this RAW, so what is your point? In my post I said "While it might seem underwhelming..." I don't consider it that way at all but many players do.
Umm... that isn't exactly what I said you know. RAW Fighters already do things real world people can't... like defeat a dragon in a one-on-one fight. No soldier, martial artist, etc. in this world could do it with the martial weapons in the PHB. Maybe with some grenades, rocket launcher, etc., who knows?Bingo! There's that hard ceiling. Fighters MUST NEVER do anything that a real world person can't.
Bingo! There's that hard ceiling. Fighters MUST NEVER do anything that a real world person can't.
I don't know the description of Fighter in the PHB of 2e included Herakles as inspiration .. which hard ceiling is the character patterned after the titanic strength demigod running into oh right a standing broadjump which can be matched by normal football player and the attack rate of very normal but skilled archer -the game answers yeah you can kill things because hit points are abstractions even just overcoming an enemies luck but damnit you are stuck with less than impressive anything else. Oh yeah and you and in epic you have 25 percentiles better at doing skill stuff when you are a baby character does it make you feel so awesome. (to do something you used to do 40 percent of the time at 65 percent of the time)
"Out of curiosity, why are you quoting me??? With Remarkable Athlete you can already do this RAW, so what is your point? In my post I said "While it might seem underwhelming..." I don't consider it that way at all but many players do."Out of curiosity, why are you quoting me??? With Remarkable Athlete you can already do this RAW, so what is your point? In my post I said "While it might seem underwhelming..." I don't consider it that way at all but many players do.
Umm... that isn't exactly what I said you know. RAW Fighters already do things real world people can't... like defeat a dragon in a one-on-one fight. No soldier, martial artist, etc. in this world could do it with the martial weapons in the PHB. Maybe with some grenades, rocket launcher, etc., who knows?
Well then that's fine, simple misunderstanding.
No, I doubt it. The fighter has stayed the most popular class through a range of significant design changes. When it was utterly skill-less in the early game, complex feat-based builds in 3.0, judged dismally Tier 5 in 3.5, balanced and with more powers to choose from than any other class in 4.0, busted back down to beatsick in Essentials, or action surging & self-healing in 5e.
That doesn't require mechanical inferiority.
None of the design changes you cite vary this "hard ceiling" significantly. As several people -- including you, in your very next sentence -- have taken pains to note, whatever conceptual "hard ceiling" fighters have exists independent of their mechanical power level. Nothing a maximum-level fighter can do in any edition of the game is particularly inconsistent with a quasi-realistic Conan-style character (unless they're a 5E eldritch knight or took 4E multiclassing feats or something; you get what I mean).
