D&D 5E Fixing the polearm and taking back its seat as generally best nonprojectile weapon from the sword.

[Son of the Serpent]

Also for the record everything ive ever read about medieval combat suggests coroc is correct. Swords were a back up weapon mostly. For cramped (not just vroadly disorganized) combat and honestly a warrior hoped they didnt have to draw a sword because it meant they were squeezed too tight to fight very well at all in many cases. Sword or not.

 

[Umbran]

It doesnt involve magic. It involves a spear being a deceptively good weapon. Did i mention anything about magic irl or are you saying u just assume im psychotic

No, dude. I was giving a hopefuly amusing nod to how the game does have magic in it. You can relax.

You may want to look into just how much of an advantage a spear has against a sword typically in combat. Its immense. Ive exaggerated nothing.

I suggest you go put on some armor, and take a spear into a field, and work with it. Any SCA group will obilge you. I'm well aware that it is a good weapon - my personal preference is a polearm in the field. But, while it has good things about it, it has bad things about it too. It has the "inside the reach" problem. It has some notable momentum/leverage problems that people with smaller, faster weapons can take advantage of. And, in cluttered terrain, the spear is awkward, and so on.

I will repeat - if the spear was somehow a super-weapon, you have to explain why real-world people whose lives actually depend on their weapon would use the more expensive sword.

 

[dave2008]

1. Yes. But also better than swords in close combat (but also the gap is more heinous at range)

Your opinion, not mine. Not sure about yours, but mine is based on experience and observation.

2. Debatable and besides, skill for skill spear/polearm wins

I disagree, you need more training and skill in a spear to be effective with it. I know from experience

3. 1BILLION PERCENT WRONG they are also better than swords in close combat whether in formation or one on one. Anything saying otherwise is hollywood.

I my experience you are wrong. I have witness and participated in this types of fights. Sword tpically wins in 1v1 close quarter situation. Actually, even a a distance the sword does really well because it is easy to block the spear and penetrate the defenses of the spear wielder.

4. Pffffff what even is this one? Spears arent fantastical? WAT? The weapon of choice for warrior gods such as vishnu, odin, zeus, and many others? Hah.

That is not what I am saying. I am saying I don't necessarily want spears to be better in my fantasty games. I am not suggesting spears can be fantastic.

To be clear the spear is a the weapon of choice for Athena in my greek god stats for 5e for a reason

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Your opinion, not mine. Not sure about yours, but mine is based on experience and observation.

I disagree, you need more training and skill in a spear to be effective with it. I know from experience

I my experience you are wrong. I have witness and participated in this types of fights. Sword tpically wins in 1v1 close quarter situation. Actually, even a a distance the sword does really well because it is easy to block the spear and penetrate the defenses of the spear wielder.

That is not what I am saying. I am saying I don't necessarily want spears to be better in my fantasty games. I am not suggesting spears can be fantastic.

To be clear the spear is a the weapon of choice for Athena in my greek god stats for 5e for a reason

Did i say it WASNT the weapon of choice for athena? Its also the weapon of choice for zeus. Also guess whos shield maiden she is? Ah. Zeus's. Guess who she hands a spear OR sheild to occasionally? Ah. Zeus. Also her sheild is actually zeus's. Oh yes. I know athena uses a spear. Zeus not only uses spears but uses multiple different kinds.

 

[dave2008]

Well in military context of medieval times no one used a sword, except in cramped melee situations or as backup. Everyone has one, yes, exactly for that. Watch a bit of Matt Eastons scholagladiatora youtube channel (HEMA) and he discusses loads of this.

Great swords were often used versus horses (legs) and if two knights in plate were fighting with great swords they were used like a short spear (half sword technics) or warhammer (mordhau) by griipping them with 1 or two hands by the blade.

Only versus unarmored and lightly armored opponents swords can be used in the traditional way most people think about when thinking about swords, and be effective.

A 1 on 1 situation with equally experienced fighters IRL: spear wins 9 out of 10 times,mainly because of its reach, it attacks first, it is very hard to counter or parry, because with very little movement on the attackers side you can create big movement at the defenders side.

A sword is a civilians weapon, ineffective against most armored oponents, lacks reach and penetration power versus chain and plate, can be easily countered by a shield, requires loads of training etc. etc.

In D&D more often than not, the situation is rather a 1 vs 1 or group vs. group than a military battle formation vs another. And not all oponents wear armor or even are humanoid. So there a sword might compete a bit better.

The mystifying of the sword IRL comes because of its symbolic meaning: It was the first weapon which could not double as a tool or a hunting weapon, it was a "pure" weapon and so the choice as a status symbol for noblemen. It also could be worn quite easily in a sheat or belt at your side keeping your hands free making it a good self defense weapon with better reach than the dagger (everybody was wearing)
Again here: I bet in a duel sword vs dagger, unarmored the sword beats the dagger 9 out of ten.
Because of reach and weapon speed. Yes. A halberd even has more velocity if swung. Think about it, it is only mechanics, and circular movement and lever aka radius of the movement (which is a accelerated movement by itself).

I don't disagree with your research; however, have you ever used a spear or sword in combat? I have (mock combat though) and for me - the sword is generally just better.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

@dave2008 as a matter of fact the whole reason athena uses a spear is supposed to be because she inherited the skill from being born from zeus' head.

 

[dave2008]

Did i say it WASNT the weapon of choice for athena? Its also the weapon of choice for zeus. Also guess whos shield maiden she is? Ah. Zeus's. Guess who she hands a spear OR sheild to occasionally? Ah. Zeus. Also her sheild is actually zeus's. Oh yes. I know athena uses a spear. Zeus not only uses spears but uses multiple different kinds.

Dude I was agreeing with you. What is your issue? I said the best warrior of the Greek Gods used a spear in my own Fantasy world (I'm not talking about IRL mythology). What are you going on about?

 

[Son of the Serpent]

I don't disagree with your research; however, have you ever used a spear or sword in combat? I have (mock combat though) and for me - the sword is generally just better.

I have actually trained with them for actual martial arts. Does that count?

 

[Son of the Serpent]

I hear a lotta people like katanas here. I got bad news.

 

[dave2008]

@dave2008 as a matter of fact the whole reason athena uses a spear is supposed to be because she inherited the skill from being born from zeus' head.

Not sure what your point is, but I believe I addressed this in my previous reply?