D&D General The Satanic Panic never really died?

[Garthanos]

but that doesn't mean we are correct in projecting bad motives.

We were talking about a bad technique not a bad motive.
Bad motive I think would be wanting to prevent their kids from finding a social outlet with their peers. (and that is something one might project on the behavior but its by far not necessarily true)

 

[Eric V]

Your statement of "other companies have all original demons not based in current religious belief" is not true at all.
But hooray for cherry picking.

LOL

There ARE companies that have original demons not based in current religious belief...what's your problem?

Are you, perchance, not reading it correctly? I didn't write "ALL other companies have original demons not based in current belief," I wrote "there are other companies who have all original demons not based in current religious belief."

Dude, for you to be right when you say "Your statement of "other companies have all original demons not based in current religious belief" is not true at all." would require NO COMPANY HAVE ORIGINAL DEMONS NOT BASED IN CURRENT RELIGIOUS BELIEF.

Come on, now...

 

[FrogReaver]

LOL

There ARE companies that have original demons not based in current religious belief...what's your problem?

Are you, perchance, not reading it correctly? I didn't write "ALL other companies have original demons not based in current belief," I wrote "there are other companies who have all original demons not based in current religious belief."

Dude, for you to be right when you say "Your statement of "other companies have all original demons not based in current religious belief" is not true at all." would require NO COMPANY HAVE ORIGINAL DEMONS NOT BASED IN CURRENT RELIGIOUS BELIEF.

Come on, now...

I think all demons are based on religious belief. The very notion of a demon is a religious notion afterall. They may make up their own worlds and religions and demons - but the notion of a demon is a descriptive word that is tied to real world religions.

 

[Eric V]

We were talking about a bad technique not a bad motive.
Bad motive I think would be wanting to prevent their kids from finding a social outlet with their peers.

Fair enough. Like I said, it's a simply solved issue: have a deeper engagement with the source material, hopefully alongside your kid.

Thing is, if one really believes these entities exist, and have influence in the real world, then I'm not sure what other, specific, aspect of the game would nullify those concerns.

 

[Eric V]

I think all demons are based on religious belief. The very notion of a demon is a religious notion afterall.

The notion? I guess; if one thinks any aspect of the supernatural is fundamentally religious in origin.

The scenario I was looking at was concerns over "specifically real demons" that one might be familiar with due to a religious worldview showing up in a hobby one's kid is deeply engaged with..

 

[Xenonnonex]

LOL

There ARE companies that have original demons not based in current religious belief...what's your problem?

Are you, perchance, not reading it correctly? I didn't write "ALL other companies have original demons not based in current belief," I wrote "there are other companies who have all original demons not based in current religious belief."

Dude, for you to be right when you say "Your statement of "other companies have all original demons not based in current religious belief" is not true at all." would require NO COMPANY HAVE ORIGINAL DEMONS NOT BASED IN CURRENT RELIGIOUS BELIEF.

Come on, now...

You are weirdly but intentionally discounting all of the original demons Wizards have created not based on current religious beliefs. This is the very definition of cherry picking and intentionally skews into bias. In fact Paizo has more demons based on current religious beliefs than Wizards does.
Come on now.

 

[FrogReaver]

The notion? I guess; if one thinks any aspect of the supernatural is fundamentally religious in origin.

The scenario I was looking at was concerns over "specifically real demons" that one might be familiar with due to a religious worldview showing up in a hobby one's kid is deeply engaged with..

I grew up around the holiness people, no makeup, no jewelry, no tvs, long dresses, long uncut hair.

My experiences tell me it was the general notion of "demons, gods and magic" and that "satan was corrupting the world". I mean when rock and roll and rap music were deemed as being demonically influenced because of the evil sung about in some of the songs and general wordliness even when something deemed evil wasn't necessarily present then D&D with it's references to "demons, gods and magic" stood no chance!

 

[MGibster]

In all seriousness the satanic panic largely died with the McMartin preschool case. People went to jail 4 years on trumped up obviously false charges. When that case fell apart on live television in Los Angeles did people finally calm down

When I hear people today scoff at how stupid our ancestors were for believing in witches I think back to the Satanic Panic of the 1980s. It did largely die with the McMartin case in 1990, but it lingered in some parts of the US with the West Memphis Three (Wiki Link) being the last hurrah in 1993.

When I look back to the Satanic panic as it relates to gaming I feel sorry for some of those people. Pat Pulling lost her son to suicide and she jumped on D&D as the cause in order to cope with her grief. That doesn't justify her actions but it makes it easier to understand her motivations.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Those things exist and happen to real people. We’re talking about fictional magic, and nobody has ever been magic missiled.

Not when we pretend it, right? And, this is dismissing a number of religions that actually feature occult practice as part of their rituals, like wiccans and satanists. The "fictional" aspect is the point of contention -- to a devout christian, black magic is something that must be avoided. That no one casts magic missile isn't really the point at all.

And while I’m OK with anybody deciding for themselves what their own limits are regarding fictional things like magic (while reserving the right to have my own opinion on that), I very much sympathise with the daughter who is having to deal with somebody else’s beliefs. I hope she finds a good solution to this problem.

Absolutely, I think this is entirely laudable.

I myself had to defend my hobby to my parents; we were a Catholic family (I, as I’m sure you know, am not religious), and my mum in particular believed some of what she heard. She banned me from playing for some time, and had newspaper clippings in a drawer about D&D satanic rituals. We had to persuade her to sit in on a game to realise it was just a bunch of nerds making Monty Python jokes. This question on Twitter struck a chord with me, as I went through the exact same thing.

While I did not have to defend my hobby to my parents on religious grounds, it was attacked as a waste of time. I did have to avoid discussing it with extended family though. And, I was fired from a job because I left a campaign notebook behind -- there was a very uncomfortable discussion with my supervisor where he asked me directly if I was a satanist and, when I denied it, produced the notebook as if it were evidence against. To this day I am careful of where and with who I discuss my hobby. So, while I didn't have the additional weight of family, I sympathize greatly with your story and the one in the OP. I just find that taking the objections as coming from an honest place is a better approach than mockery (not that you've done this, just a general statement).


Edit to fix quote tags.

 

[Garthanos]

Fair enough. Like I said, it's a simply solved issue: have a deeper engagement with the source material, hopefully alongside your kid.

Critical thinking skills come in handy regardless.

Thing is, if one really believes these entities exist, and have influence in the real world,

Also
When you are taught that you can implore in a poetically phrased fashion while clasping your hands in an appropriate gesture to achieve miraculous supernatural intervention in your everyday life. You may be right the entirety of the game may well freak you out. Even if they include no incantations or gestures.

Though Ars Magica kind of had gestures.