D&D 5E Realistic/Historic armor for D&D (Homebrew)

[Charlaquin]

unfortunately the description in the srd for breastplates specifically states completely unarmered besides the breastplate (though i always assume a helmet because benefit of the doubt)

Those descriptions specifically state all sorts of nonsense, but alright.

 

[Arch-Fiend]

Those descriptions specifically state all sorts of nonsense, but alright.

i do agree that an armor that is chainmail with a breastplate over top of it would be completely valid though, i just think it would work better as a combo armor and i didn't want to get into that kind of thing in my document, especially just for one armor.

 

[Charlaquin]

i do agree that an armor that is chainmail with a breastplate over top of it would be completely valid though, i just think it would work better as a combo armor and i didn't want to get into that kind of thing in my document, especially just for one armor.

Again, I think breastplate over a buff coat would be fine, and would probably read as unarmored besides the torso to most folk unfamiliar with armor, much like how brigandine reads as “studded leather.”

 

[Arch-Fiend]

have you compared the armor protection of gambeson (which would be the best comparison to a buff coat) and that of a breastplate? i think that armor is also valid, but the rules for it would be more complex, better for a system using called shots or maybe something like this

touch ac +breastplate ac + gambeson ac, if you hit above touch ac but below breastplate, both AP's apply, if you hit above breastplate ac, gambeson AP applies. problems? how its applied to spells that dont roll to hit. maybe such case always counts as if there is an attack but it just rolls below the full armor class. so always applies to the armor with the highest full ac but im not sure that's a perfect solution. also yes obviously the weights would stack. id argue stacking armor works like the following

armors of the same type that stack become armor of the next level (light->medium->heavy) but armors of different types that stack do not become armor of the next level, though if you stack 3 armors (gambeson+leather+breastplate) the same type armors stack first becoming a next level armor and then that armor stacks with the 3rd armor.

 

[dave2008]

I feel you, but I agree with @BookBarbarian and @LordEntrails , that making armor more realistic (DR) doesn't make sense unless you do something about hit points. That is what we did (but much simpler than what you have). Here is what we use:

Armor provides AC & DR. AC as normal and DR = AC-10.
DR only comes into play when your "bloodied"
Your are bloodied when your HP = 0 and then all remain hits take damage from your bloodied hit points (BHP)
When your bloodied the damage you take on a hit = the damage rolled - your armors DR

So when a fighter wearing plate armor is reduced to 0 hp, each hit after will be: damage rolled - 8.

You could make this system more complex or "realistic" by revising AC and DR values, or different values for different damage types, or adding lingering injuries, crits damage BHP & HP, etc. We tried some variations, but this simple approach scratched our realism itch and was the most fun for us.

 

[Arch-Fiend]

I feel you, but I agree with @BookBarbarian and @LordEntrails , that making armor more realistic (DR) doesn't make sense unless you do something about hit points. That is what we did (but much simpler than what you have). Here is what we use:

Armor provides AC & DR. AC as normal and DR = AC-10.
DR only comes into play when your "bloodied"
Your are bloodied when your HP = 0 and then all remain hits take damage from your bloodied hit points (BHP)
When your bloodied the damage you take on a hit = the damage rolled - your armors DR

So when a fighter wearing plate armor is reduced to 0 hp, each hit after will be: damage rolled - 8.

You could make this system more complex or "realistic" by revising AC and DR values, or different values for different damage types, or adding lingering injuries, crits damage BHP & HP, etc. We tried some variations, but this simple approach scratched our realism itch and was the most fun for us.

why exactly does making armor more realistic not work when you keep hitpoints the same? is it the idea that hitpoints are so high so while the armor may realistically deflect attacks, the effect it has even when the armor protection is applied isint realistic? the fault being juxtaposition rather than a mechanical failure

or is it because this system regardless of how much damage a character can do or how well he can hit will ultimately reduce the damage being done on all sides thus increasing the effect of having the amount of hitpoints that are natural to D&D? the additional effect being it prolongs encounters especially considering most monsters are THICC with hitpoints compared to other editions of the game.

if the latter is the issue then i think that's a matter of taste personally, a pursuit of a specific kind of game which im not necessarily making these rules for, its an application the idea can exist for of-course but the artists work can always be used beyond its intent, for the latter i think a solution would be reducing hitpoints by an amount, how much exactly would depend on play testing, though the issue there is there still isint a balance between armor style play and unarmored style play, and reducing hitpoints across the board would only exacerbate the problem. if some solution there could be found id make a prediction, you probably wouldn't need to reduce hitpoints below half of what it is currently.

 

[Arch-Fiend]

errata 1
-changed chainmail and chain shirt to have -2 armor protection from piercing and half metal armor protection from piercing. chainmails cost reduces to 400gp
-added armor piercing arrows/bolts

 

[coolAlias]

While I dislike (critical) hit charts in general because they slow the game down, using them opens up some design space for implementing individual armor pieces.

The critical hit chart for blunt head wounds might have 6 levels of severity with a 6+ being instant death (crushed skull); wearing a helmet could impose a -1 or -2 to the roll rather than or in addition to providing an AC / DR bonus. If you want to keep it dangerous, do like in 2e Combat & Tactics and have larger creatures roll bigger dice on the charts, e.g. 1d8 for an ogre even though the max is 6 (or whatever).

 

[dave2008]

why exactly does making armor more realistic not work when you keep hitpoints the same? is it the idea that hitpoints are so high so while the armor may realistically deflect attacks, the effect it has even when the armor protection is applied isint realistic? the fault being juxtaposition rather than a mechanical failure

By RAW, hit points are an abstraction. When your are "hit" in the game and loose hit points it doesn't necessarily mean you are actually taking physical damage. HP are more a measure of luck and exhaustion. That is why you heal so fast and can keep fighting right to 0. If this is the case then it doesn't make sense for armor to be damage reduction, because you aren't really taking damage when you loose hit points.

So, IMO, for damage reduction to really make sense you either make HP less abstract and be actual "meat" points or provide an alternate "meat" points (like our BHP or the Vitality Points in the UA article). I'm not saying it is something you have to do, but when our group considered armor as DR it really began to trash the default idea of hit points so we had to come up with an alternate way to handle them. Thus we have HP wich as RAW and BHP as actual "meat" points.

 

[DND_Reborn]

While HP are abstract and sometimes represent effort to turn lethal hits aside or such, sometimes they do also mean you got "hit" and the armor makes defending yourself more easy. Thus, armor as DR, even in an HP system, makes a certain amount of sense. You won't have to expend as much effort to make the blow less lethal in armor than in not.

We tried a AC/DR variant a while ago which was pretty simple:

Light armor was 1 point of AC (no max DEX bonus)/ 1 point of DR
Medium armor was 2 points of AC (max DEX +3)/ 2 points of DR
Heavy armor was 4 points of AC (max DEX +1)/ 4 points of DR
A shield added 1 point of AC/ 1 point of DR

DR could not reduce a hit to less than 1 point. Critical hits ignored DR. IIRC, we had Armor Master Feats add +1 AC and +1 DR. We also toyed with the idea that you could make an attack with disadvantage, but you then ignored DR.

I think that was most of it. Not horribly complex IMO and maybe someone can run with it?