D&D 5E Cost of Attending Wizard School

[snickersnax]

So you're giving them 4 cantrips to start as well then or are you expecting them to double up on one or more of those categories and still start with 3 cantrips?

It's interesting, I always end up with 1 attack, 1 save + 1 utility. I'd bet that I probably woudl fall under your house rule most of the time with my wizards, but maybe not.

I thought of it both ways and I think 4 cantrips at level 1 is the way to go.

 

[Yaarel]

Levels 1 to 4 are ‘apprentice’ levels.

The thing is, not all characters gain access to a formal education system. Especially, in a medieval-esque system.

Some characters are ‘self-taught’. They are their own apprentices, sotospeak.

Even so, the characters of levels 1 to 4 are still characters who are learning the ‘basics’ of how to fight or how to spellcast.



By the way, in a medieval-esque setting, ‘formal education’ includes, a rich parent hiring one or more mentors.

Parents often send their teen away to a ‘foster parent’ to learn a useful skill there.

Students might get employed as a servant in a ‘guild’ or a ‘workshop’ or a ‘school’, where the ‘master’ is using the students as labor. For example, an artist might have a ‘school’ where numerous students are painting religious icons, and the ‘master’ supervises their artwork to make sure the product is of adequate quality.

A shoe-maker might hire people to help make shoes.

In a military unit, the ‘master’ = the ‘knight’ who keeps an eye on students who show aptitude for warfare. The knight might even take the budding fighter under ones wing, as a ‘page’ (= apprentice), then a ‘squire’ (= professional).

In a feudal political context, the pages and squires are chosen less for their fighting skills and more for their family connections. It is more about who knows who, than who knows what.

In medieval or ancient contexts, a formal education that includes reading ancient texts from manuscripts, is normally for wealthy elites only. In this context, D&D wizardry is for those who have the money to afford it. But every now and then, a student ‘gets a scholarship’ sotospeak, because of showing remarkable aptitude. Somehow having gained a modicum of access to real wizardly magical techniques. Even so, this Wizard apprentice continues to serve the master, doing chores and errands, and so on, while learning something useful every now and then.

Despite the norm. There are individuals who somehow manage to teach themselves with little or no formal training.

At level 5. They are professionals.

 

[Salthorae]

In medieval or ancient contexts, a formal education that includes reading ancient texts from manuscripts, is normally for wealthy elites only. In this context, D&D wizardry is for those who have the money to afford it.

RIght, and that is what this thread reinforces.

Levels 1 to 4 are ‘apprentice’ levels.

The thing is, not all characters gain access to a formal education system. Especially, in a medieval-esque system.

Some characters are ‘self-taught’. They are their own apprentices, sotospeak.

Even so, the characters of levels 1 to 4 are still characters who are learning the ‘basics’ of how to fight or how to spellcast.

Despite the norm. There are individuals who somehow manage to teach themselves with little or no formal training.

At level 5. They are professionals.

Not really no. 1st level characters are fully proficient in all of their skills, weapons, armor, etc. However they learned those skills, they are professionals at the start of the game.

They can literally use the downtime rules from either the PHB for XGE to earn a living without having to go out adventuring using the proficiencies that they start the game with from either background or class. Per the PHB, they can hire themselves out as a skilled laborer for a comfortable lifestyle (2 gp a day).

Skilled hirelings include anyone hired to perform a service that involves a proficiency (including weapon, tool, or skill): a mercenary, artisan, scribe, and so on. The pay shown is a minimum; some expert hirelings require more pay.

Earning a living doing something is the definition of being a professional.

Again, they might be apprentice adventurers, but they are professionals in their classes at the start of the game.

 

[S'mon]

New adventurer-class characters are Journeymen; they are still learning how to operate independently, they're not yet ready to train others, but clearly they are not Apprentices any more.

Level 1-4 Journeyman/Mage/Rogue/Warrior/Adept
Level 5-10 Craftsman/Wizard/Thief/Fighter/Priest
Level 11-16 Master Craftsman/Master Wizard/Master Thief/Fighter Lord/High Priest

 

[5ekyu]

On the original post, in my games, I tend to work it in reverse. The debt is in time and tight. Casters are not do common that its competition to get in but rather competition to find them.

So, once one is found, they trained for free or possibly bribed and bought - with contract for extended tithes in redources and duty after graduation.

The gold from the parents is trivial compared to the resources the trained caster will gather later. Depending on the setting style, it might be as much a matter of almost recruiting talents competition.

 

[snickersnax]

A 1st level Wizard is not an apprentice Wizard.

hmmm.... according to Volo they are

APPRENTICE WIZARD
Medium humanoid (any race), any alignment
Armor Class l0
Hit Points 9 (2d8)
Speed 30 ft.
STR 10 (+O)
DEX 10 (+0)
CON 10 (+O)
INT 14 (+2)
WIS 10 (+O)
CHA 11 (+O)
Skills Arcana +4, History +4
Senses passive Perception 10
Languages any one language (usually Common)
Challenge 1/4 (5O XP)
Spellcasting. The apprentice is a 1st-level spellcaster. Its spellcasting
ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 12, +4 to hit with
spell attacks). It has the following wizard spells prepared:
Cantrips (at will):.fire bolt, mending, prestidigitation
1st level (2 slots): burning hands, disguise self, shield
ACTIONS
Dagger. Melee or Ranged Weapon Attac:k: +2 to hit, reach 5 ft. or
range 20/60 ft ., one target. Hit: 2 (ld4) piercing damage.

 

[S'mon]

hmmm.... according to Volo they are

APPRENTICE WIZARD
Medium humanoid (any race), any alignment
Armor Class l0
Hit Points 9 (2d8)
Speed 30 ft.
STR 10 (+O)
DEX 10 (+0)
CON 10 (+O)
INT 14 (+2)
WIS 10 (+O)
CHA 11 (+O)
Skills Arcana +4, History +4
Senses passive Perception 10
Languages any one language (usually Common)
Challenge 1/4 (5O XP)
Spellcasting. The apprentice is a 1st-level spellcaster. Its spellcasting
ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 12, +4 to hit with
spell attacks). It has the following wizard spells prepared:
Cantrips (at will):.fire bolt, mending, prestidigitation
1st level (2 slots): burning hands, disguise self, shield
ACTIONS
Dagger. Melee or Ranged Weapon Attac:k: +2 to hit, reach 5 ft. or
range 20/60 ft ., one target. Hit: 2 (ld4) piercing damage.

You can tell he's not graduated yet; he doesn't have magic missile or mage armour!

 

[Celebrim]

For contrast, a typical wizard apprentice in my (homebrew 3.Xe) game would look something like this:

Apprentice Wizard, Age 14; Medium Human 0th Level Wizard; LN
AC: 8
Hit Points: 2
Atk: -2 melee kitchen knife (1d3-2), -2 ranged touch vial of acid (1d3 + splash + continuing damage)
Speed: 30 ft.
STR 6, DEX 7, CON 7, INT 12, WIS 7, CHR 7
Languages: Common, Ancient
Skills: Alchemy +4, Astrology +4, Concentration +1, Craft (Glass-blowing) +4, Knowledge (Arcane) +6, Knowledge (Nature) +4, Knowledge (Planes) +6, Spellcraft+4
Feats: Civilized, Educated
Spells Per Day: 3 0th
Spells: Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Read Magic

Feels like Volo is a bit of a power creep in pretty much everything but skill access. A 4th level Wizard in my game world named Roberts would expect people to call him 'Master Roberts', and would be addressed as 'His Potency, Master Roberts'. Servants would say, "Yes, your potency.", and "By your will, your potency." He'd consider himself a pretty big shot in whatever small town he hailed from. He might know a 5th level wizard or two. He'd be pretty much in awe of their terrifying power. He's probably heard of a 7th level wizard. Just thinking of speaking to such a master of lore would make him weak in the knees and stutter like a child. Anything more powerful than that he tends to just think exists in stories or fantastic far away places he's never been.

To me, the problem with "you have to be 5th level to be a professional" is the PC's probably ought to be someone's minion until 5th level. And in my experience, just getting to 5th level is in and of itself a pretty long campaign, even if you aren't splitting the XP with a DM NPC master that is protecting you through this journey. I mean it sort of makes sense from a narrative perspective that the PC's have a Gandalf, Aragorn, or Obi-Wan protecting them until they are leveled up, but I think from a play perspective it would suck.

If the world is filled with hyper-compotent people, why are they leaving things in the hands of bumblers like the PCs?

 

[snickersnax]

. And in my experience, just getting to 5th level is in and of itself a pretty long campaign, even if you aren't splitting the XP with a DM NPC master that is protecting you through this journey. I mean it sort of makes sense from a narrative perspective that the PC's have a Gandalf, Aragorn, or Obi-Wan protecting them until they are leveled up, but I think from a play perspective it would suck.

In standard 5e rules it only takes a month or 6 to get to level 20. But I'm like you and slow it down.

 

[Salthorae]

Feels like Volo is a bit of a power creep in pretty much everything but skill access. A 4th level Wizard in my game world named Roberts would expect people to call him 'Master Roberts', and would be addressed as 'His Potency, Master Roberts'. Servants would say, "Yes, your potency.", and "By your will, your potency." He'd consider himself a pretty big shot in whatever small town he hailed from. He might know a 5th level wizard or two. He'd be pretty much in awe of their terrifying power. He's probably heard of a 7th level wizard. Just thinking of speaking to such a master of lore would make him weak in the knees and stutter like a child. Anything more powerful than that he tends to just think exists in stories or fantastic far away places he's never been.

To me, the problem with "you have to be 5th level to be a professional" is the PC's probably ought to be someone's minion until 5th level. And in my experience, just getting to 5th level is in and of itself a pretty long campaign, even if you aren't splitting the XP with a DM NPC master that is protecting you through this journey. I mean it sort of makes sense from a narrative perspective that the PC's have a Gandalf, Aragorn, or Obi-Wan protecting them until they are leveled up, but I think from a play perspective it would suck.

If the world is filled with hyper-compotent people, why are they leaving things in the hands of bumblers like the PCs?

Agreed on the power creep side. NPC's are not PC's in 5e, the two function differently for gameplay reasons.

Of course, I still believe very heartily in the "No one in the LotR stories is higher than 5th level". So...

Either way, depends on your game worlds I guess. To me 1st levels are professionals. From their they begin their ascent into world-shaking legends. 5th level wizards are beings of fear and awe since they can potentially incinerate a small town with a few words and gestures.

Even in Eberron that is true to a degree, though the scale slides up somewhat with it's "Wide but not High" magic concept.