D&D 5E Balance issue

[trentonjoe]

I am playing around with replacing cantrips with another mechanic and wanted some opinions on if this was close to "balanced". In a nut shell, I want to swap the unlimited use of a cantrip for being able to situationally use a cantrip as a reaction. Something like this:



Replace

Thunderclap
LEVEL
Cantrip
CASTING TIME
1 Action
RANGE/AREA
5 ft

You create a burst of thunderous sound that can be heard up to 100 feet away. Each creature within range, other than you, must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 1d6 thunder damage.
The spell’s damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).




With
Snow Leopard’s Growl
As a reaction, you create a thunderous growl that rattles the bones of your enemies. Each creature within 5’ of you must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 1d6 thunder damage.
The spell’s damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).

Trigger: When a second opponent within 5’ makes an attack against you.
This ability can be used again after a short or long rest.


Other than change some flavor, I traded unlimited usage for the ability to use it as a reaction.

 

[Tony Vargas]

So your plan is to replace /all/ attack cantrips that way?

I suppose it might even be a net power-down for some casters, depending on how long your 'days' are and how many short rests they include. Which, well, there's plenty of room for that without hurting the game.

If there are still some significant at-will attack options available, OTOH, then a short-rest-recharge that can be fairly consistently used is going to add a bit to the DPR bottom line, FWIW.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I am playing around with replacing cantrips with another mechanic and wanted some opinions on if this was close to "balanced". In a nut shell, I want to swap the unlimited use of a cantrip for being able to situationally use a cantrip as a reaction. Something like this:

If you're replacing all combat cantrips this way, that will be a significant downgrade to the power of casters, so that by itself will create a big balance issue.

Casters will also go back to 2E-style where they mostly just use normal weapons at low levels, but it's the mid-levels where this will be a big kick in the teeth, where casters have started to get 2 dice, then 3 dice with cantrips, and will instead be stuck with light crossbows doing 1d8+dex mod for the rest of eternity.

Replacing utility cantrips as well this way would be utter madness but I assume you aren't doing that.

If you're only replacing some cantrips, ones which already have a highly situational usage, like Thunderclap, then it's less of a big deal, though it seems pretty damn silly to make it ALSO require a short-rest recharge, as well as only being able to trigger under specific circumstances. I'd suggest ditching that bit, and instead just keeping the specific trigger. It's not like reactions are worthless, either - many low-level spells can provoke opportunity attacks (Command with "Crawl", Dissonant Whispers, and so on).

If you're just annoyed with a couple of cantrips your players are abusing, I suggest modifying them instead of throwing a whole bunch of babies out with some relatively clean bathwater. Whereas if you have a larger endgame, it's probably worth explaining it so people can help you get there without just crapifying casters.

 

[trentonjoe]

So your plan is to replace /all/ attack cantrips that way?

I suppose it might even be a net power-down for some casters, depending on how long your 'days' are and how many short rests they include. Which, well, there's plenty of room for that without hurting the game.

If there are still some significant at-will attack options available, OTOH, then a short-rest-recharge that can be fairly consistently used is going to add a bit to the DPR bottom line, FWIW.

No not all, just some to create more options. It's not a game wide, sweeping changing, it's for one specific PC. I really want to make sure I am not making the PC better than it should be.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

No not all, just some to create more options. It's not a game wide, sweeping changing, it's for one specific PC. I really want to make sure I am not making the PC better than it should be.

Definitely you are not. Even if you drop the short-rest requirement, I think it's unlikely to create serious issues unless the player is a pretty good min-maxer. Especially if they're a full caster and thus rather vulnerable in melee.

 

[trentonjoe]

The player is a barbarian/bard and a competent power gamer but not looking to break the system. He has a pretty good idea of how to keep things in the area of "just right".

It's mostly a flavor thing, he wants his clan of barbarians to have cool super powers and wants to try something new.

 

[BigBadDM]

For the most part the change shouldn't cause problems for Wizards (as they really shouldn't be using them much anyways)..
But other classes if you start messing with their at-will cantrips can cause some power drain. Specifically Warlocks and Sorcerers (the latter being twinned versions). They tend to use these methods as a standard attack such as a fighter with their sword.

Short answer is, if the class itself doesn't use the cantrip as it's main attack the change is fine. If the class uses their cantrip as their primary attack then I would advise against it.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The player is a barbarian/bard and a competent power gamer but not looking to break the system. He has a pretty good idea of how to keep things in the area of "just right".

It's mostly a flavor thing, his clan of barbarians to have cool super powers and doesn't want to try something new.

Bards only start with two cantrips so I think being generous with functionality here is particularly unlikely to be a problem.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Other than change some flavor, I traded unlimited usage for the ability to use it as a reaction.

Any time you mess with the action economy, it's going to create power imbalances.

It reminds me of something they did in World of Warcraft, a few years back. Instead of introducing a stream of larger and larger bombs for engineers to use, just so that their damage would be worth spending a global cooldown on, they introduced an item that did significantly less damage - but removed from the global cooldown.

That's what's going on here. By removing the action cost, this becomes just a flat power boost. If you were comparing it against the at-will damage that would have been done through cantrips over the course of the day, then this would have made them burst-ier at the expense of longevity, and that would have been worth figuring out the math for. Since it's for a multi-class barbarian/bard, though, I have to suspect that they're just going to attack with an axe every round, regardless; and in that case, they're giving up nothing in exchange for this free damage.

 

[Salthorae]

In theory, as a reaction, it's competing with other things that could be used on a reaction like Shield or Absorb Elements if they have it from magical secrets and/or Opportunity attacks since they are a Barbarian/Bard multiclass. But yes, by targeting a lesser-used portion of the action economy it does provide a slight boost to effectiveness.

One point - Barbarians can't cast any spells while raging, so... not sure how much utility it will be unless your Barbarian/Bard doesn't rage much when they find themselves in melee?