D&D 5E Merging the Sorcerer and Warlock

[Xeviat]

I had a wild idea recently (while discussing what the Psion is and generally trying to find a role and identity for each class). I ran into the idea that, barring mechanical differences, the theme of the sorcerer and warlock are close enough that the classes could be merged and little to nothing would be lost.

The sorcerer is a naturally born Spellcaster who has connection to supernatural brings, or sometimes just primal elemental forces or aspects of magic. The warlock is one who makes a pact with an otherworldly being for power. How could I say these are the same thing?

Well, it would be a simple "where does your power come from" section. What differentiates a theoretical fey sorcerer bloodline from a Fey pact warlock? Or a celestial warlock from a favored soul sorcerer? The flavor differentiation between pact or blood could just be background for the class, like the difference between a philosophy cleric and a divine worshiping cleric.

I feel like the sorcerer and warlock are only separate because of the warlock's separate mechanics. I feel that since the warlock doesn't rely upon a curse/boon mechanic like they did in 4E, the line between these two classes could be removed and the sorcerer could take on the warlock casting mechanics. Metamagic could return as a feat option for all casters, an alternate way to upcast spells.

Thoughts?

 

[Kurotowa]

I had the same thought just today too, and I agree entirely. The Sorcerer is very lacking in purpose with spontaneous casting now the standard and the Warlock toolkit feels just a little short. Though my idea was to fold metamagic into the Warlock kit, to give those limited spell slots the extra flexibility they need. Then to fill the Sorcerer's narrative role you could introduce Bloodline Inheritance as either a Patron, where the player would be able to customize it to some degree, or as a Pact, modifying an existing Patron so that you're your own master thanks to the power in your blood.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I'd change metamagics to be invocations with a 1/short rest restriction.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

So sorcerer + Warlock as a class (In my language both terms are the same, so I'd keep the name Sorcerer)

Sorcerer
lvl 1: Spellcasting (short rest), Sorcerous Origin
lvl 2: Invocations (Metamagics are now 1/short rest Invocations) 2 Invocations
lvl 3: Eldrtich Boon (Ritual, bonded weapon, talisman or familiar)
lvl 4: ASI
lvl 5: 3 Invocations
lvl 6: Origin feature
lvl 7: 4 Invocations
lvl 8: ASI
lvl 9: 5 Invocations
lvl 10: Origin feature
lvl 11: Mystical Arcanum ( lvl 6)
lvl 12: ASI, 6 Invocations
lvl 13: Arcanum lvl 7
lvl 14: Origin Feature
lvl 15: Arcanum lvl 8, 7 Invocations
lvl 16: ASI
lvl 17: Arcanum lvl 9
lvl 18: Origin Feature, 8 invocations
lvl 19: ASI
lvl 20: Master of Sorcery

Origin:
Fiendish, Celestial, Fey, Dragon, Chaos, Undying, Shadow

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Well, alternatively, why is a mage who was taught magic by a fairy queen or whatever (warlock) mechanically any different than one who learned the same magic through self-directed study (wizard)? If anything it feels like the Sorcerer, the only character class whose magic comes to them innately rather than through some sort of learning, should be the one with a fundamentally different style of magic than other full casters and the Warlock should mechanically be some mix of wizard and cleric.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Well, alternatively, why is a mage who was taught magic by a fairy queen or whatever (warlock) mechanically any different than one who learned the same magic through self-directed study (wizard)? If anything it feels like the Sorcerer, the only character class whose magic comes to them innately rather than through some sort of learning, should be the one with a fundamentally different style of magic than other full casters and the Warlock should mechanically be some mix of wizard and cleric.

I agree. I think that if you gave the dark-n-creepy-black magic spells of the warlock to the wizard and gave option for death, chaos and evil domain for clerics in the PHB, you could remove the warlock class altogether. It lets some design space for a Demonologist and Fey-magic (witch or hedge magic) wizard to go beyond the classic ''8 schools of magic''.

Then you give the short rest spell slots and invocations to the sorcerer to make it distinct.

 

[Xeviat]

Well, alternatively, why is a mage who was taught magic by a fairy queen or whatever (warlock) mechanically any different than one who learned the same magic through self-directed study (wizard)? If anything it feels like the Sorcerer, the only character class whose magic comes to them innately rather than through some sort of learning, should be the one with a fundamentally different style of magic than other full casters and the Warlock should mechanically be some mix of wizard and cleric.

Perhaps this is because the Warlock ended up being a Charisma class rather than an Intelligence class. I personally don't see the current Warlock being "taught" magic by a fairy queen, I see them being bestowed magic. And if making pacts with devils turns you into Tieflings, and if a Fiend blooded Sorcerer subclass feels like a possible and valid subclass, then I don't see why the Sorcerer and Warlock should be separated. Either your grandpappy was a dragon, or you made a pact with a dragon, now you have dragon magic.

We have 6 full casters: 1 Int, 2 Wis, and 3 Cha. There's a big part of me that wishes it was 2/2/2. (We also have 3 half-casters now, Artificer as Int, Ranger as Wis, Paladin as Cha; COINCIDENCE?)

There is definitely potential to link the Warlock and Wizard, perhaps more so than the Sorcerer. Sorcerers often take on physical attributes of their bloodline, and leaning harder into that could create a stronger identity for the Sorcerer. Warlocks don't generally have that physicality. As it stands, for the most part, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards just do magic. The Bard, Cleric, and Druid feel like they have more things going on for them other than magic. I do like the short rest magic recovery and invocations for sorcerers; "eff you, I'm a dragon" just screams having more at-will power to me.

Having Arcane Pacts as "shortcuts" to Wizardry would open up the design space for more Wizard subclasses. But I think some settings get a lot of mileage out of Warlocks being the "black magic" devil types, and letting Wizards be more neutral.

I've been stuck thinking about this with all the talk of people wanting a full Psion class, rather than doing Psionics fully with subclasses. And while Psion as a type of Wizard doesn't work for me for a lot of reason, "person who does 'magic'" feels kinda like a wizard by another name (especially if they're both Int classes).

But, I do want a Psion and Psion feels like it should be an Int class. So, Psion and Wizard as Int, Cleric and Druid as Wis, and Bard and Sorcerer as Cha.

 

[Xeviat]

So sorcerer + Warlock as a class (In my language both terms are the same, so I'd keep the name Sorcerer)

Sorcerer
lvl 1: Spellcasting (short rest), Sorcerous Origin
lvl 2: Invocations (Metamagics are now 1/short rest Invocations) 2 Invocations
lvl 3: Eldrtich Boon (Ritual, bonded weapon, talisman or familiar)
lvl 4: ASI
lvl 5: 3 Invocations
lvl 6: Origin feature
lvl 7: 4 Invocations
lvl 8: ASI
lvl 9: 5 Invocations
lvl 10: Origin feature
lvl 11: Mystical Arcanum ( lvl 6)
lvl 12: ASI, 6 Invocations
lvl 13: Arcanum lvl 7
lvl 14: Origin Feature
lvl 15: Arcanum lvl 8, 7 Invocations
lvl 16: ASI
lvl 17: Arcanum lvl 9
lvl 18: Origin Feature, 8 invocations
lvl 19: ASI
lvl 20: Master of Sorcery

Origin:
Fiendish, Celestial, Fey, Dragon, Chaos, Undying, Shadow

I'd also keep Sorcerer, partially because Warlock feels aggressively gendered (Yes, Sorcerer/Sorceress, but that's a suffix ending, where as Warlock/Witch are completely different words that just share W and C in common).

 

[Tonguez]

Well, alternatively, why is a mage who was taught magic by a fairy queen or whatever (warlock) mechanically any different than one who learned the same magic through self-directed study (wizard)? If anything it feels like the Sorcerer, the only character class whose magic comes to them innately rather than through some sort of learning, should be the one with a fundamentally different style of magic than other full casters and the Warlock should mechanically be some mix of wizard and cleric.

Not really and the Cha v Int is fundamental to the different approaches here.
Wizards are first and foremost scholars, natural philosphers who have studied the mechanics of the multiverse to the extent that they have learn the formulas and rituals that allow them to manipulate Magic in the world, the spell book is fundamental - the Wizard is about calculation and mechanics

Warlock and Scorcerer arent about learning formula and ritual, they are all about the intuitive feel for magic, be it the natural flow of the magical world around them or illiciting the favour of hidden powers. They dont need to understand Magic and how it works, they just need to feel the flow and do it

 

[Xeviat]

Not really and the Cha v Int is fundamental to the different approaches here.
Wizards are first and foremost scholars, natural philosphers who have studied the mechanics of the multiverse to the extent that they have learn the formulas and rituals that allow them to manipulate Magic in the world, the spell book is fundamental - the Wizard is about calculation and mechanics

Warlock and Scorcerer arent about learning formula and ritual, they are all about the intuitive feel for magic, be it the natural flow of the magical world around them or illiciting the favour of hidden powers. They dont need to understand Magic and how it works, they just need to feel the flow and do it

As they are currently described, yes. And this is why I suggest merging the Warlock and Sorcerer; their themes can be blended and the only thing lost are "unique" mechanics (and I say give the new class the Warlock structure).