D&D 5E Are Barbarian’s “Meh”

[Undrave]

I got bored playing a Druid, so I don't think there's anything super wrong about the barbarian. Your players just did everything cool and now they want something different. When my Druid died I opted not to have him resurrected and tried a different character. I dunno how long that one will last but we'll see.

 

[Oofta]

My wife played a barbarian in my previous campaign that went to 20th level. She had a blast for the entire time. For her it was all about the attitude, rushing into combat screaming and taking reckless chances.

Is it for everyone? Obviously not. But the problem is not with the class, sometimes people just want to play a PC that's mechanically straightforward. I know I enjoyed playing a champion fighter even though it's just as "boring" mechanically because I can just turn my brain off and focus on RP.

 

[Weiley31]

Part of this is that the class is pretty terrible levels 9 through 19, and the level 20 capstone doesn't make up for it. Brutal critical is pretty easily the worst ability in the game, and you waste 3 levels on it. Some of the high level subclass path abilities are good, but they also don't feel worth it. Relentless Rage is an ability you never want to be using. Persistent Rage should never come up. Indomitable Might is cool, but comes much, much, much too late to be meaningful (what DM is challenging their PCs with Strength checks at level 18?).

Insert incredibly epic scene where Barbarian flips over an Ancient Red Wyrm Dragon and proceeds to give it the Noogie of Desolation.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Barbarians are my favorite class, but understand that they get very few new things to do at high levels. instead they get improvements to things they already do.

In terms of "Buttons" the base barbarian really just gets 2. Rage and Reckless Attack. So do I hit the Rage button or the Reckless attack button or both. Totem warriors get some ritual spells to mix it up a bit, as does the ancestral guardian, but the other subclasses really just modify Rage for the most part.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to multi-class the old Barbarian especially after level 5-7. I went Zealot5/Ranger2 on my current character and I'm going to grab Gloom Stalker next level. I planned this out after our party had an extensive stay in the underdark.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[BookBarbarian]

Brutal critical is pretty easily the worst ability in the game, and you waste 3 levels on it.

Yup. The fact that the recent UA didn't have alternate features to replace brutal critical was something I remarked on when taking the feedback survey.

It's the perfect place to add a few more interesting features

 

[Tony Vargas]

So, I’ve had two players in two separate campaigns ask to retire their single class Barbarian characters. Both were around 8th level, and both “ got bored w/ the character”.

Understandable...

Both also felt other classes got more variety of powers...

...sure...

and did more damage.

"and?" ...what were these other classes?

This is the only class that I have personally seen retired in 5e.
Anyone else seen/ experienced it?

Nope, never seen a barbarian retired in any edition.
Died, and not gotten raised, sure, but not retired.

 

[jasper]

Are you tired of adventuring?
Is your boiling rage more like a sunny simmer?
Are you more comfortable swinging in your kids tire swing than swinging for the fence?
Are you up at the crack of dawn? To Pee.
Are you ready for bed when the sun sets?
Then Jasper's Retirement Home may be the place to be.

 

[NotAYakk]

Yup. The fact that the recent UA didn't have alternate features to replace brutal critical was something I remarked on when taking the feedback survey.

It's the perfect place to add a few more interesting features

I like to 'brew, how about you? Design notes in italic.

Alternative Class Features - Barbarian

Brutal Weapon Master (Enhancement)
At 1st level, a Barbarian is considered to have the Great Weapon Master feat while raging, and may use its features on any strength-based melee attack, even if the weapon doesn't have the Heavy property.

GWM is pretty much a must-have for an effective Barbarian, and I don't like feat taxes. This also opens up some fun two-weapon barbarian builds that aren't gimped (!), as well as gnome barbarians (!).

Reckless Critical (Alternative to Brutal Critical 11 13 and 17)
While Raging and making a Reckless Attack, you score a critical hit on a 19-20. When you strike a critial hit while Raging and making a Reckless Attack, you deal 1 extra die of weapon damage, and gain half of the damage you deal as temporary HP until the end of your next turn.

This increases to 3 dice at level 13 and 6 dice at level 17.

Dipping Hexblade 1/Fighter 3 for 19-20 criticals is a very common trope for barbarians so I just rolled it in here; with perma-advantage they really want to up your critical rate, as the ROI is doubled. This costs you non-reckless non-rage criticals at the benefit of them being 2x as often when being reckless and raging. I then up the dice you gain at 13 and 17 so those levels don't suck (2 dice instead of 1).

Inner Rage (Improvement to Persistent Rage)
You always have advantage on Strength, Charisma(Intimidation) checks, Strength saves and saves against being Charmed or Frightened.

Might as well give the Barbarian some (I mean, a) social (I mean "social") skills (I mean, skill). And "I rage to do a str check" now goes away, giving the barbarian more things to do in exploration. The 3 saves are things I could imagine having a reserve of Rage would help against.

Indomidable (Improvement to Indomidable Might)
When you roll a d20 for a Strength check or save, Constitution check or save, Wisdom save or Charisma(Intimidation) check or Charisma save, if the roll is under the statistic in question, you instead are considered to have rolled the statistic value.

So if you have 12 Charisma and +7 intimidation, the minimum intimidation roll you can get is 12+7=19.

This is a level 17 ability. It is a bit redundant with the new Inner Rage. But it shores up mostly strong points of a Barbarian, plus the boost on all Wisdom saves.

A 24 stat barbarian with proficiency has a min (and hence max) roll of 24 + 6 + 7 = 37 on a check/save. Yes, this means it may be impossible to break a barbarian's grapple. Deal.

Overall: offensively, this gives the Barbarian a bit of the Paladin crit-fishing; they do 7[W] on a crit. Less than a Paladin full smite, but comparably scary. Whirling Scimitar barbarians become interesting with 3 attacks at -5/+10.

It also gives them a few toys in the exploration realm and social realm in the back half.

And it shores up one or two defensive weaknesses, and some already existing strengths, in I hope a fun manner. A 14 charisma/wisdom/con/str barbarian with resilient (or other proficiency) has a min save of 22, for example, or 16 without the proficiency, and often have advantage on the save.

 

[Blue]

So, I’ve had two players in two separate campaigns ask to retire their single class Barbarian characters. Both were around 8th level, and both “ got bored w/ the character”. Both also felt other classes got more variety of powers and did more damage. The characters in question were a modified Beserker and Zealot ( Sohei inspired w/ Polearm Master & Sentinel Feats).

This is the only class that I have personally seen retired in 5e.

Anyone else seen/ experienced it?

As a DM I would say the class as a whole reads as a boring class, but holds up well in play......up into 8th level. Monks are fun, and everyone likes playing them, Fighters start really doing Nova Action surges, and to these two players the Barbarian leveling up “ felt more of the same”.

Reckless (heh) disregard for their own safety because of how innately tanky they are leads to awesome combat tales you tell again and again. In other pillars of play that's got interesting options such as the nature connections of the Totem subclass at 3rd, 6th and 10th.

Now, a weapon wielder will have less variety than a pure caster in every pillar of play. And the barbarian doesn't have a extra skills to make up for that in outside combat. So that is against them. Most classes are "more of the same" as they level, but some barb subclasses do give you some interesting stuff, so I'm a bit surprised by that leveled against them.

The idea that other classes do more damage makes me ask if the DM routinely does short adventuring days. When there's only 2-3 encounters per day pure casters will be wiping out more spells in combat for lots of effects and damage, and still have slots for utility in other pillars of play. That's a DM issue, not a class issue - short encounters can balance deadliness by making them more difficult, but it does balance the attrition of resources between long-rest-recovery model character and at-will characters.