D&D General What Even Is The Deal With DnD Dragons?

[Umbran]

Nothing in D&D is mythical, even the gods. D&D takes content from myths, legends, and 20th century fiction, views it only in terms of its powers and capabilities, and stats it up thereby rendering it meaningless.

I gotta love when folks go to absolute extremes, like "meaningless".

In and of itself, a dragon of myth was meaningless - it is how the fictional element is used, and in what context of story, in which humans find meaning. Meaning is found in the story overall, not in single parts.

If you kill Tiamat in D&D can you make the world out of her body?

Well, kind of hard to create the world when the world already exists, so, I wouldn't expect to.

Hm. Beowulf didn't build a planet out of his dragon's body. He's just a guy who kills a few monsters. So... is his story meaningless?

To you, are, "myths," limited to, "godlike beings that exist before the world"?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Thank you very much!

I want to know more!
You should definitely make a new post where you explain your dragons themes with images and everything. My knowledge of medieval mysticism with humors and alchemical elements is somewhat lacking, but your thing is pure genius. I guess it allows for more mix'n match when you make different mixes with humors and stages? You could have a Sanguine/Almagation dragon with a healing breath?

 

[Quickleaf]

They aren’t mythic beings, unless you only use Ancient Dragons (and not even always then), so they don’t fill the same place as the Red and White dragons of Welsh myth, or the great dragons of Sumerian myth. In fact, it seems like you really have to work to make them fit any mythic dragon model.

Most medieval manuscripts don't have artistic depictions of dragons any bigger than a horse, some are about man-sized, and a few are more like large dog-sized. Pretty sure one of Gygax's influences were these sorts of manuscripts.

 

[Bitbrain]

That one is evil. How do you handle this with game mechanics? Save STR or get stuck and suffocate?

I only remember the amber from the first episode fringe where it was basically gluing together the interior of an aircraft, so I cannot tell what additional properties it had.

Yes, STR saving throw or be restrained.

EDITED FOR CLARITY
If you don’t move out of the AoE on your turn after getting blasted with this effect, then you have to make a second STR saving throw or be petrified.

Spoiler

another character can use their action to make a STR (athletics) check, breaking a creature petrified in this manner free on a success.

In season 3 of Fringe, it is revealed that the people trapped in amber are still alive, and can be revived if you use a specific method to break them free.

This is the Eberron purist in me, but I have to ask: why? What's the purpose of changing the dragons of Argonessen from Metallic/Chromatic to Gem?

Because I wanted to. Because I thought it would be cool to create a false link between the dragons of argonnessen and the three types of dragonshard crystals.

Also, there's also another possible place for Gem Dragons in the Eberron sourcebooks: experiments by the Inspired of Riedra to create even stronger Quori vessels. What's your take on that?

In my Eberron campaigns, Gem Dragons are not associated with psionics, so no, this idea wouldn’t apply to my interpretation of the setting.

While I like Eberron, I also see nothing wrong with changing elements of it to better reflect my own opinions of the setting.

 

[Charlaquin]

I want to know more!
You should definitely make a new post where you explain your dragons themes with images and everything. My knowledge of medieval mysticism with humors and alchemical elements is somewhat lacking, but your thing is pure genius. I guess it allows for more mix'n match when you make different mixes with humors and stages? You could have a Sanguine/Almagation dragon with a healing breath?

Thank you very much!That kind of mixing and matching wouldn’t work for what I’m going for. The humors and the stages of Magnum Opus are both associated with colors. The usual terms of the alchemical stages are Nigredo (Blackening), Albedo (Whitening), Citrinitas (Yellowing), and Rubedo (Reddening). What chemical processes those map to does vary by source though, and not all sources include Citrinitas, while some add Claudia Pavonis (the Peacock’s Tail) between Nigredo and Albedo.

You might also notice I named my chromatic dragons after the names of those stages (albino=Albedo, citrine=Citrinitas, ruby=Rubedo), except for Nigredo, cause...Yeah...

I could probably write something up if you like. Accompanying art might be tricky, some of my dragons (quicksilver in particular) have some pretty specific design elements that I doubt I’ll be able to find examples of. But I’ll see what I can do.

 

[MarkB]

I like Eberron's take on dragons, both the ditching of alignment restrictions, and the mysterious dragon continent.

I am kind-of tempted to get quite silly with Argonessen if/when a campaign goes there, and make it essentially dragon suburbia. Have dragons live there in communities not utterly unlike those of humanoids, but on a much larger scale, both geographically and temporally. Make the entire continent essentially one big city and suburbs, with dragons living in far higher population densities than any other setting (though still far lower than any human town or city) such that the continent-spanning settlement is equivalent in population to a modern capital city and its boroughs.

I'd apply Eberron's "wide magic" concept to the architecture and modern conveniences, except that, this being a draconic civilisation, it's not just low-level magic that's widespread. Dragons can call a Teleport as casually as we would flag down a taxi, and their meteorological department doesn't predict the weather - they make it, based upon the city's current social and economic requirements.

Any dragons seen outside the continent - aside from those silly Draconic Prophecy nerds - are loners or other social misanthropes who just can't stand the big city.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

They aren’t mythic beings, unless you only use Ancient Dragons (and not even always then), so they don’t fill the same place as the Red and White dragons of Welsh myth, or the great dragons of Sumerian myth. In fact, it seems like you really have to work to make them fit any mythic dragon model.

And the whole Chromatic/Metallic thing...what the hell is this?

First, they’re all both of those words. It’s like Alien vs Predator. They’re both alien predators. Imagine if we referred to the Blood War as Evil vs Fiends. It’s weird.

And the whole idea of them embodying alignments is just...one of the worst example of the grid filling of early dnd monster creation.

It just seems like having so many types of what is really the same creature, just with differing personalities and breath weapons, dilutes the whole concept. Stuff like Faeirie Dragons, Wyverns, Dragon Turtles, etc, at least expands what a dragon can be, rather than just being a palette swap I’m expected to take seriously as an important part of the world.

So, idk, defend dnd dragons if you like them, or join me in commiseration if you find them wanting.

Yeah I'll defend the D&D dragons.

So "Vanilla D&D" which for 5th edition is largely the Forgotten Realms, is largely to give the DM a full suite of options, so that the DM can disregard pieces they don't like.

So when you want "Mythic Dragons," you cut out every dragon but the ancient ones.

If you don't want a dragon for every alignment or color, cut them out so you only have a few that match particular biomes.

I know people who run games and literally just use the red dragon, because it's the classic fire one. The options are meant to be easier to narrow down.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Most medieval manuscripts don't have artistic depictions of dragons any bigger than a horse, some are about man-sized, and a few are more like large dog-sized. Pretty sure one of Gygax's influences were these sorts of manuscripts.

Nod.
Whereas my influences as a kid encountering D&D for the first time were 7th Voyage of Sinbad ...


...and, well, Godzilla (no pic for scale needed, I'm assuming).

 

[MarkB]

Nod.
Whereas my influences as a kid encountering D&D for the first time were 7th Voyage of Sinbad ...
View attachment 116763

...and Godzilla.

One of the lesser known Godzilla crossovers, but a good one.

 

[akr71]

They are their own thing now, and fit into the mythic D&D dragon model. Because D&D has started to become mythic itself.

This. They're D&D dragons now.

Yes. Why does D&D have to reflect mythology or medieval themes? There should be room for original D&D fantasy creations without having to justify it against something else.