Giltonio_Santos
Hero
I think it is, but this is by design. Strong healing turns combats slower, and 5e aims for fast combats.
It wasn't that "using healing surges was valueable", it was "small amounts of damage to you are free".The biggest downside for me, by far, was how they were tied to individual characters.
Play an assassin skulking in the shadows? Or a master bowman, picking off foes from afar? Or a spellcaster with crappy AC?
Too bad - the party's most valuable resource is healing surges, and if you don't step forward and accept your fair share of incoming damage, your healing surges would go unused, and you can't afford that kind of waste.
Uncoupling healing from surges, so that the fighter can drink every Healing Potion there is, with the Rogue, Ranger and Wizard drinking none, was among the best decisions 5E took.
I mean, that's sorta true: powerful healing turns a TPK into a long slog, for instance.I think it is, but this is by design. Strong healing turns combats slower, and 5e aims for fast combats.
On a very long adventuring day, surges could, in theory, become a valuable 'party resource.' And, an over-optimized fighter could (again, mostly in theory, I can say I've seen it happen once or twice in 10 years of weekly play) be too good at defending, and end up tapped out of surges while everyone else was more or less fine.The biggest downside for me, by far, was how they were tied to individual characters.
- the party's most valuable resource is healing surges, and
As amusingly heroic as that may have been, there were powers, items, and a trivial 1st-level ritual, that let you share out surges with a little inefficiency, so it was largely a moot point. You could have everyone 'stepping up' now and then, if you liked the drama of that dynamic.... or not.- if you don't step forward and accept your fair share of incoming damage, your healing surges would go unused, and you can't afford that kind of waste.
Not that anyone had too crappy a given defense, but strikers & controllers had significantly lower hps than defenders, and fewer surges, as well, precisely because they didn't need them so much.Play an assassin skulking in the shadows? Or a master bowman, picking off foes from afar? Or a spellcaster with crappy AC?
Too bad
I mean, the wealth-by-level chart and the prices in the magic item table certainly conspired to suggest that healing should be cheap.Also magic healing was so cheap and plentiful the impatience to get back into the fray soon meant you adventure on a pace you no longer can sustain with mundane rest.
A level 14 fighter with 140hp can take ~140hp worth of damage in a fight, spend no other resources, and still be back at full after a short rest. That isn't "a bit of damage"; that's enough damage to kill a young green dragon.The same is true in 5e -- your HD mean that you taking a bit of damage over a day is "free" as soon as there is a short rest.
From a narrative perspective, healing magic is beyond trivial in 5E. There's nothing that you can do with any amount of cure spells which can't be outdone with a long rest.So what do people think? Are the other healing spells too weak in general?
Yeah you can argue the 4e incarnation is a bit too much, but I think the mechanic in the abstract could easily have been adjusted for a more gritty version, like your own.
I just feel that the HDs in 5e just aren't as... involved in other aspect of the rules as healing surges were. Like, we got no way to lose them and there's no feat to improve them or anything. They're just there for one thing and that's it.
And if you multi class with a class that has different hit die it just gets to be a pain to track how many of each die you have. If you just get to track one quarter of your HP then your healing surge will average out if you go from a high HP dice class to a low HP dice class ya know?
Woah, no. The number of surges was based on class, as few as 6, as many as 10 or so. Your CON mod added to the number of surges. Not your level, which added to your hps, and thereby surge value.
The 1/4 'or more' came from leader-role class's powers (significant - optimized could double your surge at high levels), or (much smaller bonuses) feats, racial perk, or item. So, about 1/4 for most purposes - particularly between-combat healing.
Not at all, really. Surges were a hit-point-restoring resource, not hit points. A character with 3x the hit points would be a very different animal from a character with 8 surges. In any given combat, you could access 1 surge via Second Wind (a standard action, so not taken lightly), and the party's support 'leader role' character could trigger 2 or more, depending on level & build choices, in support of the whole party. So even a 1st combat of the day could be quite a challenge, even drop PCs, while still leaving them able to recover and be ready for the next challenge.
The main effect of surges was not 'more hps' but silo'ing hit point recovery as a daily resource from attack/defenses/utilities as daily resources, and limiting access to that resource, both per-encounter, and per day. It not only made classes with surge-triggers more interesting to play than the old (and new again) Band-aid Cleric without any risk of them turning into CoDzilla, it removed the kinds of systematic abuses of low-cost healing (wands/potions) we saw it 3e, as well.
One of the reasons the 5MWD wasn't the issue in 4e it was in other editions, 5e especially, and why 3-5 encounters/day was a pretty good target (though you could go much higher), vs 5e's needing to stick to 6-8 to remain at all functional in terms of both encounter & class balance.
The biggest downside for me, by far, was how they were tied to individual characters.
Play an assassin skulking in the shadows? Or a master bowman, picking off foes from afar? Or a spellcaster with crappy AC?
Too bad - the party's most valuable resource is healing surges, and if you don't step forward and accept your fair share of incoming damage, your healing surges would go unused, and you can't afford that kind of waste.
Uncoupling healing from surges, so that the fighter can drink every Healing Potion there is, with the Rogue, Ranger and Wizard drinking none, was among the best decisions 5E took.
The biggest downside for me, by far, was how they were tied to individual characters.
Play an assassin skulking in the shadows? Or a master bowman, picking off foes from afar? Or a spellcaster with crappy AC?
Too bad - the party's most valuable resource is healing surges, and if you don't step forward and accept your fair share of incoming damage, your healing surges would go unused, and you can't afford that kind of waste.
Uncoupling healing from surges, so that the fighter can drink every Healing Potion there is, with the Rogue, Ranger and Wizard drinking none, was among the best decisions 5E took.
So imagine your character concept was "in combat I hide, then at the right moment I pop out and kill, then hide again. Getting hit is something I don't do."But Defenders had the most number of Healing Surges.
If I recall the Artificer had ways to shuffle Surges around.
I honestly have no idea what that means, and if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. So I won't make a direct reply.It wasn't that "using healing surges was valueable", it was "small amounts of damage to you are free".
So is "fooling foes to run after you into the darkness" and wasting their turns. Or doing damage beyond engage range. Or having abilities that also nullify attacks on your allies.
The same is true in 5e -- your HD mean that you taking a bit of damage over a day is "free" as soon as there is a short rest.