D&D 5E (2014) Thoughts on bonus action potions?

[FrogReaver]

One other benefit of bonus action buff potions for combat is that they are a long term resource that players can use to get out of bad situations while having an appreciable cost to them.

Essentially they are a lever that can be pulled when to much is thrown at them, but a lever with a cost so it won’t be abused.

IMO. You could probably even make potions no action but limited to one per turn.

 

[Maxperson]

If there’s a specific concern about chain-chugging healing potions, you could always add some sort of “potion toxicity” rule. Like ingesting more than 2 potions within a minute poisons the character or something.

Since it's healing potions that are the issue, rather than making it potions in general, perhaps something like taking a second healing potion within 30 seconds or a minute creates a magical conflict that causes the second potion to undo the healing of the first. You'd be down two healing potions with 0 healing at that point.

 

[Maxperson]

One other benefit of bonus action buff potions for combat is that they are a long term resource that players can use to get out of bad situations while having an appreciable cost to them.

Essentially they are a lever that can be pulled when to much is thrown at them, but a lever with a cost so it won’t be abused.

IMO. You could probably even make potions no action but limited to one per turn.

I wouldn't make them no action. Bonus action seems to be enough for them to see use in my experience.

 

[FrogReaver]

I wouldn't make them no action. Bonus action seems to be enough for them to see use in my experience.

Why not? Serious question?

 

[Maxperson]

Why not? Serious question?

It undercuts the action economy entirely. Why would potions be free use for their magical effect, but this rod over here takes an action to use? And that bonus action spell really takes as long(or even less time) to use as the potion, but isn't free.

For a significant magical effect, there needs to be some sort of cost to it in my opinion.

 

[Kinematics]

I should add that I want to see buff potions get used, but I don't want drinking basic healing potions mid-combat to become ubiquitous.

Maybe I could take a page from the weight debate, and say that a basic potion of healing is more volume than most potions (including the more expensive healing potions). They are cheap and easy to make, and you don't even have to be a spellcaster to do so, but they are much less concentrated than other potions, and so take an action to chug them.

But then my concern with that is it wouldn't get the players used to using them. Maybe I actually need to make them all bonus actions on a trial basis, and if basic healing potions become ubiquitous in combat, change those back to an action, and hopefully the players will have internalized that they can still usefully drink other potions as a bonus action by then.

Another approach is to adjust the "introduction" to the battle. Don't just roll initiative and start swinging. Include the moment of sizing each other up. Give time for the threats, the bombastic introductions, and the "transformations" — igniting the flaming sword, shapeshifting into a wolf, and chugging the potion of giant strength.

How things are set up in the game, you usually only have three options:

1. Time to prep for the fight.
2. Go into the fight swinging.
3. Panic as you get ambushed.

An "introduction" phase gives you something between 1 and 2. You don't have all the time in the world to prep, but it gives you time to do something to be ready for the fight without making it seem like you're wasting your turn.

In this type of setup, I'd say you don't need to make all potions usable as a bonus action. You give them the opportunity to use the buff potions instead of letting them rot in someone's inventory for years, but without making it seem like you're cheapening their use.

For the mechanics of it, I'd say the Introduction phase lets you take one action to benefit yourself or your party, as well as accompanying dialog. (Same for the opposing side, of course.) Nothing directly offensive, but maybe allow for creating general area environmental hazards (bonfires, ice slicks, kicked over water barrel, caltrops, etc) that have to be avoided, but might also be used during the battle.

At that point, I think the only question is on the handling of healing potions. I'm kind of on the fence about bonus action use of them, but I'd most likely go with the idea mentioned earlier in the thread, of the potion giving max benefit if you use an action, but just a rolled benefit if you use a bonus action.

I tend to not find them very useful, though. With lots of magic or standard rest mechanics, they're kind of pointless. With less magic or longer rest mechanics, they're an interference. Honestly, I'd probably replace them with a grant of temp HP instead of actual healing, letting them act more as energy drinks than cures. That would make their place in society as a whole make more sense as well.

 

[FrogReaver]

Another approach is to adjust the "introduction" to the battle. Don't just roll initiative and start swinging. Include the moment of sizing each other up. Give time for the threats, the bombastic introductions, and the "transformations" — igniting the flaming sword, shapeshifting into a wolf, and chugging the potion of giant strength.

How things are set up in the game, you usually only have three options:

1. Time to prep for the fight.
2. Go into the fight swinging.
3. Panic as you get ambushed.

An "introduction" phase gives you something between 1 and 2. You don't have all the time in the world to prep, but it gives you time to do something to be ready for the fight without making it seem like you're wasting your turn.

In this type of setup, I'd say you don't need to make all potions usable as a bonus action. You give them the opportunity to use the buff potions instead of letting them rot in someone's inventory for years, but without making it seem like you're cheapening their use.

For the mechanics of it, I'd say the Introduction phase lets you take one action to benefit yourself or your party, as well as accompanying dialog. (Same for the opposing side, of course.) Nothing directly offensive, but maybe allow for creating general area environmental hazards (bonfires, ice slicks, kicked over water barrel, etc) that have to be avoided, but might also be used during the battle.

At that point, I think the only question is on the handling of healing potions. I'm kind of on the fence about bonus action use of them, but I'd most likely go with the idea mentioned earlier in the thread, of the potion giving max benefit if you use an action, but just a rolled benefit if you use a bonus action.

I tend to not find them very useful, though. With lots of magic or standard rest mechanics, they're kind of pointless. With less magic or longer rest mechanics, they're an interference. Honestly, I'd probably replace them with a grant of temp HP instead of actual healing, letting them act more as energy drinks than cures. That would make their place in society as a whole make more sense as well.

I’m afraid that in practice this mostly becomes a defacto caster buff.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I find it weird that apparently in a lot of people's games, the fights tend to just happen completely out of the blue with no time whatsoever to prepare. In my experience this is somewhat rare. PCs can gather information, the GM can telegraph things, and even failing that, the PCs could just see the enemies coming at them from some distance, giving them at least a turn to drink a potion if they so desired.

 

[Kinematics]

I find it weird that apparently in a lot of people's games, the fights tend to just happen completely out of the blue with no time whatsoever to prepare. In my experience this is somewhat rare. PCs can gather information, the GM can telegraph things, and even failing that, the PCs could just see the enemies coming at them from some distance, giving them at least a turn to drink a potion if they so desired.

In my experience as a player, I'd say less than 25% of the time (maybe as low as 10%) is there any time to prepare for a fight. By the time you're aware there's a fight, and what you're fighting, the fight has already started.

That's not to say that we won't ever be aware that there could be a fight, but that's nowhere near having enough information to know what you might fight, or when it will happen.

As far as "enough distance to drink a potion", that's both limited in actuality (it's surprisingly hard to get enough indoor space for that to be viable) and in opportunity cost (you're still giving up a turn to drink a potion instead of taking a normal action, which is the entire problem that the whole "bonus action potions" issue started with).

 

[AlViking]

I find it weird that apparently in a lot of people's games, the fights tend to just happen completely out of the blue with no time whatsoever to prepare. In my experience this is somewhat rare. PCs can gather information, the GM can telegraph things, and even failing that, the PCs could just see the enemies coming at them from some distance, giving them at least a turn to drink a potion if they so desired.

Then your experience is far different from what I've experienced over the decades with a wide variety of DMs.

Maybe 5-10% of fights we have any prep time at all, and that's generally knowing that a fight may happen in one minute or 20.

Unless we're sneaking up on the enemy prep time is rare.