D&D 2E Which is the better fantasy rpg and why: D&D 5e or Pathfinder 2e?

[abirdcall]

except it’s happened 2x already, Vampire and the World of Darkness and then Pathfinder have both overtaken what was thought to be the 900 lbs gorilla that no one could take down. Vampire was a slow burn hit. I reiterate my thoughts on P2, it will be a slow burn hit and eventually make an impact. I love 5e but it’s dominance won’t last forever. People coming into the hobby WILL look for something new and Paizo with P2 and Starfinder are primed to scoop them up.

D&D didn't have over 20 million players at that time.

When you say eventually, what kind of timeline are we talking about?

Eventually, maybe sooner than later, capitalism will collapse. And with it, the RPG market.

But that's not really what we're talking about.

We're talking about PF2 competing with 5e, not a different game. PF3 will be out before 5e's popularity has a chance of waning. And if 5e falls in popularity it won't be because of Pathfinder or any other RPG. It will be due to other factors.

 

[abirdcall]

Let me put it another way.

There are more people playing D&D now than there have ever been and that number is currently climbing at a high rate.

Estimates are that the total number of people playing in the last 5 years equals the total number of people who played in all years prior.

Pathfinder is not going to eat into D&D's market share. They're going to pick up scraps and do well for it. But D&D won't notice.

 

[jayoungr]

except it’s happened 2x already, Vampire and the World of Darkness and then Pathfinder have both overtaken what was thought to be the 900 lbs gorilla that no one could take down.

I just did a quick Google and couldn't find confirmation that Vampire/WoD outsold D&D. Do you have a source for this?

I reiterate my thoughts on P2, it will be a slow burn hit and eventually make an impact. I love 5e but it’s dominance won’t last forever.

Everything comes to an end eventually, sure. I just don't share your certainty that Pathfinder 2 is going to be the thing that will end 5E's dominance.

People coming into the hobby WILL look for something new and Paizo with P2 and Starfinder are primed to scoop them up.

Personally, I think P2/Starfinder is more likely to get people who want something crunchier after playing 5E for a while than "people coming into the hobby."

 

[Tony Vargas]

except it’s happened 2x already, Vampire and the World of Darkness and then Pathfinder have both overtaken what was thought to be the 900 lbs gorilla that no one could take down.

It did, but it didn't. Storyteller pulled ahead* when TSR folded, and D&D essentially defaulted on the lead.
Similarly, for part of PF1s arc, D&D was on hiatus, doing a protracted development & playtest. More importantly, and not at all similarly, though: PF1 /was/ D&D. It's not like the serial numbers were even filed off.






* probably, there aren't hard numbers, but regardless, WWGS did assume an obvious position of leadership in the 'headspace' of the hobby in the 90s, and, y'know, TSR failed, and had to be white-knighted by WotC.

 

[Inchoroi]

For me and the time I have available, 5e is the better system while Paizo has, by miles, better adventures and campaigns. And a better setting, in my opinion, of course. So, I run Paizo APs using 5e. Heresy, I know.

 

[Zardnaar]

For me and the time I have available, 5e is the better system while Paizo has, by miles, better adventures and campaigns. And a better setting, in my opinion, of course. So, I run Paizo APs using 5e. Heresy, I know.

Not really, Paizos good at adventures and Golarion rocks. I'm using part of the Mummy's Mask in 5E.

 

[generic]

Personally, I think P2/Starfinder is more likely to get people who want something crunchier after playing 5E for a while than "people coming into the hobby."

This. The problem which Paizo has repeatedly encountered is the fact their products pander more to established players looking for something different than to new players. Heck, PF1 started out as "3E but better" (it grew to be so much more, of course).

PF2 was an attempt to step outside of D&D's shadow, IMO. It is my opinion that any RPG that might topple D&D from its throne would have to be a game which does not rely on the SRD or OGL, or the d20 system.

An amazing d12 or dice pool (d6 or d10) game might have success, or, at least, a chance, but, honestly, I don't see 5E going away any time soon.

 

[Zardnaar]

Generally the only thing that can beat D&D is D&D or the company running it.

 

[gyor]

I like 5e's system alot better, but WotC lacks ambition and can be lazy, were as Paizo's system is flawed, but very ambitious and they frankly seem to work harder then WotC. You'd never see Paizo Reprint stuff so much and so often, you'd never seem them fill 17 pages with pure filler like names, and so on.

If it wasn't for the fact that I am distrubingly committed to the Forgotten Realms, and I like the 5e system better, I would have dumped 5e and WotC for Paizo and Pathfinder years ago, they have a better work ethic IMHO and are less timid in their ambitions and they don't have useless filler in their books.

But alas, I can only hope WotC becomes more like Paizo.

The above post has gotten more likes then any other post here that I have ever made. More people then I expected agree with me on WotC's laziness problem or some other element then I expected.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

IMHO, I don't think that Green Ronin would have designed Blue Rose with the PbtA Engine (or Fate)* because I see Green Ronin as a company that is (almost too) heavily rooted in its d20 past.

I agree. I guess I was thinking "If the same designers had got together with the idea at a different time", they might well have used a different system. Certainly I think it would work better for the goal mechanically, but there is something slightly subversive, in a very Blue Rose way, about using essentially d20-type rules for a very different flavour of game. If only the rules didn't have all that clunk! I've twice thought "I should run a Blue Rose campaign, I have a decent idea for this..." and then looked at the rulebook and gone "Ugh, don't really want to make the players go through dealing with that".