Magic In A Vaguely Realistic "Real World"

[Jfdlsjfd]

1 or 2% is a lot in the common world, enough to create laws and regulations. We have laws for obscure domains that most people don't know anything about, like how to build a bridge or which financial products are acceptable to be sold in the derivative market. On the other hand, if the remaining 98% of the population (and, more precisely, of the legislative body) not only doesn't know magic but is firmly convinced magic doesn't exist, there would be more leeway.

Divination would wreak the most havoc as you could predict lottery results and stock market quotes. You'd make a killling, legally, even with low level spell (mmm, what to buy today? let's cast guidance).

 

[doctorbadwolf]

1 or 2% is a lot in the common world, enough to create laws and regulations. We have laws for obscure domains that most people don't know anything about, like how to build a bridge or which financial products are acceptable to be sold in the derivative market. On the other hand, if the remaining 98% of the population (and, more precisely, of the legislative body) not only doesn't know magic but is firmly convinced magic doesn't exist, there would be more leeway.

Divination would wreak the most havoc as you could predict lottery results and stock market quotes. You'd make a killling, legally, even with low level spell (mmm, what to buy today? let's cast guidance).

Again, not dnd magic. There is not any DnD style divination. There is a divination skill, that could maybe be used to win a little more often on scratchers, but making real money that way would require advanced skill, and make it a tiny fraction of the Wise (ppl who either are magic or know its real). So, maybe there is a billionaire who got their starter money using divination that way, and then built an empire using divination to guide their path through acquisitions, investments, etc, overtime.

And 1 or 2% is only enough for legislation when the rest of the world knows they exist. Again, they don’t.

 

[Fanaelialae]

What can a person with some minor magical ability get away with in a time when only about 1-2% of the population knows about magic?

It's going to depend heavily on what constitutes minor magic in that system. Is "hacking" someone's email password a minor magic? Because, depending on whose password you're stealing it could range anywhere from spying on a person (perhaps an SO who is suspicious of their partner's activities), to credit card fraud, to the next major leak (whether for hacktivism or profit). If the person is using a password manager even better (just magi-hack that password and you get all the rest).

A minor illusion that could never pass muster in a D&D world will usually be 100% effective (at least initially) against people who don't believe in magic. Even the most skeptical will at least be distracted trying to figure out how the trick works.

It's easy to imagine someone who creates a charm that enables them to speak well, along with the help of some illusory "special effects", becoming a popular YouTuber (or other type of influencer).

 

[Anoth]

I been doing a urban arcana game like Dresden files and Grimm with a modified call of Cthulhu rule set that uses some spells from runequest and stormbringer too. As well as a few homebrew spells. Our game is played primarily without armor and shields because it is modern. I can’t recommend those rulesets enough. We also use the pulp Cthulhu suggestions and optional rules that increase hp by another 50% since we do more combat than in a typical coc game. And all magic doesn’t drain sanity since we aren’t playing call of Cthulhu, just using its engine. Black magic drains sanity among a few other things.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Again, not dnd magic. There is not any DnD style divination.

We don't really know the extent of the magic ; even the low-key divination power would be enough to make a killing (especially as long as people out there don't know about it). If you can beat the odds, even slightly, you can incrementally build a fortune on sport bets. You don't even need magic to be able to see the future, just the existing situation, to get an advantage in black jack (what is the card on top of the deck isn't divination on the same nature as "who will win the next superbowl"?) And it's pretty rules-of-physics compliant to have insight on a past event. But if you don't like that, that's fine, that's your setting. Wises would be quickly banned from casinos once magic is acknowledged, though, so this line of work will only last as long as people not only don't know about it but can't prove one is a magic user/creature.

And 1 or 2% is only enough for legislation when the rest of the world knows they exist. Again, they don’t.

I am not that sure... 1 or 2% is 100 to 200 millions people. Flat Earther are widely known on the Internet and they are much less to be convinced of this naughty word. A few users would use their powers to convince people of joining their cult and demonstrate the rightness of their cult by performing magic. The Internet (at first) and the national TV (after a while) would allow them to gain instant worldwide notoriety (as experts try to find the trick and must admit they can't). And you only need to have ONE televangelist in the world to out it very quickly.

At the same time, 1% or 2% of your legislative body has magic power. If they can get mind-altering magic (I know, not D&D magic but I am simply POSTULATING here) or any kind of magic that can be used to destabilize an opponent in a debate (like creating just enough pain to make him lose his concentration... try debating with someone when you feel the burn of cigarettes regularly on your body... and you said that people could create fire... that's a very small fire!) they'd soon be at the top even if they started as low-ranking politicians ; even if they are the only one really convinced of magic, they would cast a few spell at a secret party meeting and even if the world at large doesn't think magic exists, you'd get this:

... use devise practise or exercise, or cause to be devysed practised or exercised, any Invovacons or cojuracons of Sprites witchecraftes enchauntementes or sorceries to thentent to fynde money or treasure or to waste consume or destroy any persone in his bodie membres, or to pvoke any persone to unlawfull love, or for any other unlawfull intente or purpose ... or for dispite of Cryste, or for lucre of money, dygge up or pull downe any Crosse or Crosses or by such Invovacons or cojuracons of Sprites witchecraftes enchauntementes or sorceries or any of them take upon them to tell or declare where goodes stollen or lost shall become ...

Withcraft Act 1542.

Yet, most people would deride the new President's administration for passing such a law... but it wouldn't stop the Wise President to make it happen (just to be sure his power isn't threatened by other, unsanctionned magic users).

If you don't suppose even distribution, you can even get areas where the prevalence of magic users reach 10 or 15% the population (redhead are 1% or 2% of the world population but much more in Ireland) and these country would be the first to act. You can't hide it without a strictly enforced Statute of Secrecy among the magic users themselves, so as soon as the Rangers "ease" the knowledge.... The secret would be known very quickly, especially if there are some flashy (but not necessarily powerful) use of magic.

Plus, you don't need especially powerful effects to have tremendous consequences. If you can move an object just by looking at it, do the same think with an artery or brain and you'll probably kill people without expanding a lot of energy, it must be a very simple effect as the body can be very frail in the real world. If the population of serial killers and magic user intersect, you'd have a very high-profile case of use of magic that would be on the news instantly. But as long as they are no ability to prove the use of magic, the killer will be golden with a very low-power effect.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

We don't really know the extent of the magic ; even the low-key divination power would be enough to make a killing (especially as long as people out there don't know about it). If you can beat the odds, even slightly, you can incrementally build a fortune on sport bets. You don't even need magic to be able to see the future, just the existing situation, to get an advantage in black jack (what is the card on top of the deck isn't divination on the same nature as "who will win the next superbowl"?) And it's pretty rules-of-physics compliant to have insight on a past event. But if you don't like that, that's fine, that's your setting. Wises would be quickly banned from casinos once magic is acknowledged, though, so this line of work will only last as long as people not only don't know about it but can't prove one is a magic user/creature.




I am not that sure... 1 or 2% is 100 to 200 millions people. Flat Earther are widely known on the Internet and they are much less to be convinced of this naughty word. A few users would use their powers to convince people of joining their cult and demonstrate the rightness of their cult by performing magic. The Internet (at first) and the national TV (after a while) would allow them to gain instant worldwide notoriety (as experts try to find the trick and must admit they can't). And you only need to have ONE televangelist in the world to out it very quickly.

At the same time, 1% or 2% of your legislative body has magic power. If they can get mind-altering magic (I know, not D&D magic but I am simply POSTULATING here) or any kind of magic that can be used to destabilize an opponent in a debate (like creating just enough pain to make him lose his concentration... try debating with someone when you feel the burn of cigarettes regularly on your body... and you said that people could create fire... that's a very small fire!) they'd soon be at the top even if they started as low-ranking politicians ; even if they are the only one really convinced of magic, they would cast a few spell at a secret party meeting and even if the world at large doesn't think magic exists, you'd get this:



Withcraft Act 1542.

Yet, most people would deride the new President's administration for passing such a law... but it wouldn't stop the Wise President to make it happen (just to be sure his power isn't threatened by other, unsanctionned magic users).

If you don't suppose even distribution, you can even get areas where the prevalence of magic users reach 10 or 15% the population (redhead are 1% or 2% of the world population but much more in Ireland) and these country would be the first to act. You can't hide it without a strictly enforced Statute of Secrecy among the magic users themselves, so as soon as the Rangers "ease" the knowledge.... The secret would be known very quickly, especially if there are some flashy (but not necessarily powerful) use of magic.

Plus, you don't need especially powerful effects to have tremendous consequences. If you can move an object just by looking at it, do the same think with an artery or brain and you'll probably kill people without expanding a lot of energy, it must be a very simple effect as the body can be very frail in the real world. If the population of serial killers and magic user intersect, you'd have a very high-profile case of use of magic that would be on the news instantly. But as long as they are no ability to prove the use of magic, the killer will be golden with a very low-power effect.

All of that could be fun for sure. Not where I’m going, and some of it would require magic to work a specific way that it doesn’t in my game, but still interesting thoughts.

Most Hidden Folk (non-human people) are either afraid of persecution or afraid of the powerful Hidden Folk who would find them if they let out the secret.
Most Wise humans are in the same two camps, or are Rangers (wise ppl who go out into the world to keep folks safe and/or keep different groups from tearing each other apart, or seek out dangerous items to keep them safe.

Then there are the folks who want to blow up the secret, and the monsters that don’t care but are about to do so anyway.

But part of the setting conceit for a “default” campaign is that the secret is on the verge of breaking when you start play, and will be out by the end of a campaign. There are other campaign types, but that’s the basic one.

Another thing I should have mentioned is that magic is harder to do when it comes up directly against an opposing Will. Mind control is nearly impossible, and affecting someone’s internal organs against their Will is generally at least as hard as just stabbing them.

Also, the blackjack example would be a huge risk, but you could do it. Of course, winning too much will get you accused of counting and kicked out.

 

[Anoth]

We don't really know the extent of the magic ; even the low-key divination power would be enough to make a killing (especially as long as people out there don't know about it). If you can beat the odds, even slightly, you can incrementally build a fortune on sport bets. You don't even need magic to be able to see the future, just the existing situation, to get an advantage in black jack (what is the card on top of the deck isn't divination on the same nature as "who will win the next superbowl"?) And it's pretty rules-of-physics compliant to have insight on a past event. But if you don't like that, that's fine, that's your setting. Wises would be quickly banned from casinos once magic is acknowledged, though, so this line of work will only last as long as people not only don't know about it but can't prove one is a magic user/creature.




I am not that sure... 1 or 2% is 100 to 200 millions people. Flat Earther are widely known on the Internet and they are much less to be convinced of this naughty word. A few users would use their powers to convince people of joining their cult and demonstrate the rightness of their cult by performing magic. The Internet (at first) and the national TV (after a while) would allow them to gain instant worldwide notoriety (as experts try to find the trick and must admit they can't). And you only need to have ONE televangelist in the world to out it very quickly.

At the same time, 1% or 2% of your legislative body has magic power. If they can get mind-altering magic (I know, not D&D magic but I am simply POSTULATING here) or any kind of magic that can be used to destabilize an opponent in a debate (like creating just enough pain to make him lose his concentration... try debating with someone when you feel the burn of cigarettes regularly on your body... and you said that people could create fire... that's a very small fire!) they'd soon be at the top even if they started as low-ranking politicians ; even if they are the only one really convinced of magic, they would cast a few spell at a secret party meeting and even if the world at large doesn't think magic exists, you'd get this:



Withcraft Act 1542.

Yet, most people would deride the new President's administration for passing such a law... but it wouldn't stop the Wise President to make it happen (just to be sure his power isn't threatened by other, unsanctionned magic users).

If you don't suppose even distribution, you can even get areas where the prevalence of magic users reach 10 or 15% the population (redhead are 1% or 2% of the world population but much more in Ireland) and these country would be the first to act. You can't hide it without a strictly enforced Statute of Secrecy among the magic users themselves, so as soon as the Rangers "ease" the knowledge.... The secret would be known very quickly, especially if there are some flashy (but not necessarily powerful) use of magic.

Plus, you don't need especially powerful effects to have tremendous consequences. If you can move an object just by looking at it, do the same think with an artery or brain and you'll probably kill people without expanding a lot of energy, it must be a very simple effect as the body can be very frail in the real world. If the population of serial killers and magic user intersect, you'd have a very high-profile case of use of magic that would be on the news instantly. But as long as they are no ability to prove the use of magic, the killer will be golden with a very low-power effect.

well we did something in my game where divination is tied to your fate. So it does not help for the lottery. However we do use credit as a skill like in call of Cthulhu. We have a clarevoyant that likes to play poker and she uses her clarecoyance skill in place of gambling. And she blows all the money she makes on Stupid stuff because she has a money management problem. Wealth is just a RP tool for us in the game we play. So if you want to be a billionaire with a credit score of 99 then go for it. It does have some mechanical benefit, but no more than persuasion. And can be harmful in the wrong situation, like bribing someone that is unbribeable.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

I'm not too optimistic.

Theocratic governments would make it illegal, on punishment of death.

Totalitarian governments would leverage it and heavily invest in research, with no thought to ethics.

Legislative bodies in secular democracies would ban it more slowly - but I think they'd ban it nonetheless. I think there would be a colossal pushback from the very religious in less pluralistic democracies.

Imagine the Satanic Panic of the 80s. Now imagine magic is real.

You'd need redrawn constitutions, international accords limiting or restricting the use of magic, provisions in the Geneva Convention etc.

Using magic would probably be defined as a terrorist act; possessing it would cause more concern than possessing WMDs.

 

[Anoth]

I'm not too optimistic.

Theocratic governments would make it illegal, on punishment of death.

Totalitarian governments would leverage it and heavily invest in research, with no thought to ethics.

Legislative bodies in secular democracies would ban it more slowly - but I think they'd ban it nonetheless. I think there would be a colossal pushback from the very religious in less pluralistic democracies.

Imagine the Satanic Panic of the 80s. Now imagine magic is real.

You'd need redrawn constitutions, international accords limiting or restricting the use of magic, provisions in the Geneva Convention etc.

Using magic would probably be defined as a terrorist act; possessing it would cause more concern than possessing WMDs.

That could be kind of fun. A theocracy that makes it illegal, while at the same time practicing their own brand of miracles.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

[

I'm not too optimistic.

Theocratic governments would make it illegal, on punishment of death.

Totalitarian governments would leverage it and heavily invest in research, with no thought to ethics.

Legislative bodies in secular democracies would ban it more slowly - but I think they'd ban it nonetheless. I think there would be a colossal pushback from the very religious in less pluralistic democracies.

Imagine the Satanic Panic of the 80s. Now imagine magic is real.

You'd need redrawn constitutions, international accords limiting or restricting the use of magic, provisions in the Geneva Convention etc.

Using magic would probably be defined as a terrorist act; possessing it would cause more concern than possessing WMDs.

all of that is more pessimistic than I think is reasonable, but that last paragraph is just wild!

Unless magic is seen as capable of blowing up buildings, I rather doubt that.