D&D 5E Nobody Is Playing High Level Characters

According to stats from D&D Beyond, above 5th level characters start to drop off sharply, and above 10th level, the figures are very low. The exception is level 20, which looks like it's probably people creating experimental 20th-level builds. Some of them say 0%; this isn't strictly accurate, but levels 16-19 are used by an insignificant number of players. Interestingly, there are more...

According to stats from D&D Beyond, above 5th level characters start to drop off sharply, and above 10th level, the figures are very low. The exception is level 20, which looks like it's probably people creating experimental 20th-level builds.

Screen Shot 2019-12-28 at 2.16.41 PM.png


Some of them say 0%; this isn't strictly accurate, but levels 16-19 are used by an insignificant number of players. Interestingly, there are more 3rd-5th level characters than there are 1st-2nd level.

D&D Beyond has said before that under 10% of games make it past 10th level, but these figures show the break point as being bit lower than that. DDB used over 30 million characters to compile these stats.
 

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tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
-I think that a lot of the reason for the 8-12 falloff is because that's where the system starts breaking down as too many things come online for damage/mitigation/escape/recovery/etc to combine into the sort of mid-late teens 3.5 power curve of insanity where the only things capable of threatening a party are increasingly far into the spectrum of tuckers kobolds and vorlon planet killer ends of the scale unless you run helms deep type epic slogfests.
Sure the falloff begins in the 5-7 range, but that's the level range where all of those problems are still building & the campaign can be going through wrapup. @dave2008 there are plenty of modules that are "designed" for level 11-15, but good god you don't need a party that high to complete them with ease.
 
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dave2008

Legend
-I think that a lot of the reason for the 8-12 falloff is because that's where the system starts breaking down as too many things come online for damage/mitigation/escape/recovery/etc to combine into the sort of mid-late teens 3.5 power curve of insanity where the only things capable of threatening a party are increasingly far into the spectrum of tuckers kobolds and vorlon planet killer ends of the scale unless you run helms deep type epic slogfests.
Sure the falloff begins in the 5-7 range, but that's the level range where all of those problems are stukl building & the campaign can be going through wrapup. @dave2008 there are plenty of modules that are "designed" for level 11-15, but good god you don't need a party that high to complete them with ease.
I don't know about published adventures (we don't use them), but my group is level 13 and we don't have the issues you are talking about. If I bother to check my encounters against the guidelines it tracks well with my group. But I have a good feel for my group and the system at this point so I don't really use the encounter guidelines.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
I don't know about published adventures (we don't use them), but my group is level 13 and we don't have the issues you are talking about. If I bother to check my encounters against the guidelines it tracks well with my group. But I have a good feel for my group and the system at this point so I don't really use the encounter guidelines.
Oh don'tge me wrong... It's still doable in that range & depends on group dynamic/mix, but the system itself starts breaking down & that breakdown accelerates worse over time.
 


Oofta

Legend
As a social scientist and an epistemologist/philosopher of science, I'll raise you.

I'd like to point out this data is not a random sample of D&D players, but rather is biased by the sorts of players D&D Beyond is marketed towards. It's entirely possible that D&D Beyond is less likely to be used by veteran DMs and longtime grognards, and consequently, there's a false generalization that because most new/young DMs and their parties don't go beyond level 10, that ALL DMs and their parties don't. I'd hate to see WoTC not make products for people who would like higher level campaigns just because it doesn't appeal to recruitment of new players.

As a DM for over half a decade, I can attest that my campaigns typically start at level 1 and end at level 10. I actually would like to start a campaign at level 10 and end at level 20 for a change of pace, but I can't find any good resources for lessons learned at running high level campaigns.

I welcome advice, to include campaign recommendations for a DM that wants to explore high level play for the first time.

Let's see, I ran a game and played in a game that went to 20th. I'm hopeful that my current campaign to get to 20th now that I'm running a home campaign again (had to take a hiatus for 1.5 years because of moving).

At higher levels, I use a lot of custom monsters and encounters. Terrain and hazards become more important, the plot has always been be pretty earth shaking. Stopping a lich from ascending to godhood, stopping a sleeping god from being awoken while fighting the armies of a false emperor are some examples.

I do put some limitations in just for my own sanity. Planar travel is more difficult for thematic reasons and gives me an excuse to ban things like plane shift and banishment; there has to be a portal to travel between planes. I ban teleportation for similar reasons, bopping around the world using teleportation circle just isn't my style. YMMV.

Keep an eye on resources and magical items. The PCs having cool toys is part of the fun but it can be a bit overwhelming. I limit what people have access to although they can also give me a wish list so I can think about the impact.

Be flexible with PCs. Some people are just going to get tired of running the same character, I let people retrain if it's a minor tweak or let people bring in new PCs at the same level as everyone else. I've always wanted to take my PCs from 1-20, but not everyone will.

Think about how the powers that be in your region and world are going to respond to PCs that are nearly superhero level of power. Are they going to welcome them? Fear them? Try to gain their favor?

I tweak monsters, especially epic monsters. My rule of thumb is to have 1 legendary action and save less than the number of party members instead of the standard 3.

I hand wave or work with the group to develop a narrative for overcoming lower level encounters the vast majority of time.

Other than that, I think this should be a separate thread, and it still follows general advice of relationships, flexibility and making a compelling story.
 


Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
According to stats from D&D Beyond, above 5th level characters start to drop off sharply, and above 10th level, the figures are very low. The exception is level 20, which looks like it's probably people creating experimental 20th-level builds.

View attachment 117061

Some of them say 0%; this isn't strictly accurate, but levels 16-19 are used by an insignificant number of players. Interestingly, there are more 3rd-5th level characters than there are 1st-2nd level.

D&D Beyond has said before that under 10% of games make it past 10th level, but these figures show the break point as being bit lower than that. DDB used over 30 million characters to compile these stats.
This doesn’t surprise me. In my experience, campaigns tend to start out at either 1st or 3rd level. Often groups plan to play to 11th or 20th level, or otherwise plan to play through a predetermined amount of content, but the number of campaigns that actually accomplish that goal before petering out due to scheduling problems, DM and/or player fatigue, or other complications, or ending in a TPK, is much smaller. And that’s before taking into account 1-shots and short campaigns that never even intend to go past 5th level. So I would expect the majority of characters to be 1st-5th level, and for there to be a spike from 3rd-5th relative to 1st-2nd. Which is exactly what we see here.

This, by the way, is a big part of why I don’t think Subclasses and Feats constitute much in the way of character customizability. Most characters don’t last long enough to see more than one Feat and one subclass feature.
 
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Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Really fascinated by that level 20 spike. I wonder if that's people just building level 20 versions of their characters for planning, or people playing campaigns starting at level 20 just to see what it's like, or maybe bringing their characters in an older campaign onto D&DB that are already 20, or something else altogether?
Probably all of the above.
 

Chaderick

Explorer
It really feels like it's the duration of the campaigns that impacts the highest level reached. That might seem a little too obvious, but, my experiences back up the assertion:

1. High school campaign with 1e/2e leveling - Ran 10 years and ended with characters averaging level 20.
2. College campaign with 1e/2e leveling - Ran 3 years and ended with characters averaging level 10.
3. Post-College campaign with 1e/2e leveling till level 20, then 3e post level 20 - Ran 15 years and ended with characters averaging level 28.
4. Current campaign with 3e leveling - Running 3 years with characters averaging level 8.

These systems took longer to get through the lower levels if XP was tabulated, but accounting for changes in the XP system for 4e and 5e, it's very likely to get to level 10 in a much shorter campaign...and it would take years longer to get to level 20.

Note 1: No, we weren't in high school for 10 years. :)
Note 2: Our rules system is a conglomeration of all editions available at the time the campaign was played. So, the current campaign incorporates the rules we like from 0e to 5e. I mention this to clarify that the leveling system used does not correlate to the rules system, entirely.
 


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