D&D 5E The Warlord shouldn't be a class... change my mind!

[Sacrosanct]

Odysseus is one example. Sure he's a badass fighter - but if you put him in a party with Achilles or Ajax, he would be overshadowed in straight up fighting.

King Arthur vs Lancelot would be another. If they are both fighters than Lancelot would be higher level, so they wouldn't be in the same party.

Tanis Half-Elven from Dragonlance, he was a fighter, but his skill with arms was never a part of the character which was ever much emphasised.

Basically any mundane leadery character who can hold their own in a fight but is not necessarily the most badass figure around.

“Not the toughest fighter in the party” and “person in charge” isn’t a warlord though. Not in DnD terms. What did all of those people do that emulated warlord features? Specific examples. Because all of those people were just essentially fighters with higher CHA or WIS otherwise.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

“Not the toughest fighter in the party” and “person in charge” isn’t a warlord though. Not in DnD terms. What did all of those people do that emulated warlord features? Specific examples. Because all of those people were just essentially fighters with higher CHA or WIS otherwise.

Nope. No other class has to be justified that way.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Nope. No other class has to be justified that way.

Not talking about class justification. Talking about examples of warlords in literature. So again, what did those people referenced do that was especially warlordy?

 

[Mecheon]

“Not the toughest fighter in the party” and “person in charge” isn’t a warlord though. Not in DnD terms. What did all of those people do that emulated warlord features? Specific examples.

Warlords are the gruff sergent who barks orders at you to fight harder. Warlords are the king a group of fighters fight around look to for inspiration. Warlords are the tactician coming up with on the spot plans. Onslaught from Transformers is a perfect example. Basically any military general throughout time is what the Warlord encapsulates.

Because all of those people were just essentially fighters with higher CHA or WIS otherwise.

Fighters just fight. They have no mechanical representation of being able to inspire others, to make them fight past their wounds, to come up with plans on the fly and execute them.

Saying "You can just represent that with a fighter" is like saying "Ditch druid, you can just represent that with a Cleric of nature" and missing all of those unique touches that makes the druid the druid.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Warlords are the gruff sergent who barks orders at you to fight harder. Warlords are the king a group of fighters fight around look to for inspiration. Warlords are the tactician coming up with on the spot plans. Onslaught from Transformers is a perfect example. Basically any military general throughout time is what the Warlord encapsulates.

Fighters just fight. They have no mechanical representation of being able to inspire others, to make them fight past their wounds, to come up with plans on the fly and execute them.

Saying "You can just represent that with a fighter" is like saying "Ditch druid, you can just represent that with a Cleric of nature" and missing all of those unique touches that makes the druid the druid.

It seems fighters with feats, and the battlemaster fighter, disagree with your assumption. Also, no class has mechanical representation to come up with plans on the fly. That’s the role playing part, and isn’t limited to any class, fighter or rogue or wizard.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not talking about class justification. Talking about examples of warlords in literature. So again, what did those people referenced do that was especially warlordy?

They lead other people and inspired them toward greater things than they’d have done without them.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Without having read all 17 pages, so I'm hoping I'm not retreading material, I was curious who are the example warlords in fiction AND why they aren't just high level fighters?

Most of the historical examples called out as "fighters" over the years are probably better fits for warlord, because history tends to remember leaders.

In genre, too. Though genre's martial heroes tend to be more well-rounded and flexible than D&D martial classes.

the point that is often made is that the Fighter can't be the Warlord because the Fighter has too much combat ability of it's own and the Warlord shouldn't be as good as the Fighter toe to toe, 1 on 1.

As with clerics, Paladins, bladesingers, and so forth, there needs to be plausible deniability of strict superiority to the fighter.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Nope. No other class has to be justified that way.

It could be amusing to try.

How many characters from myth, legend, literature, genre and history can be shown displaying "specific examples" that "emulated class features?" (I mean, even though that's backwards and class features are meant model things source characters do.)

I mean, how many characters' supernatural powers behave like they're managing slots?

 

[Mecheon]

It seems fighters with feats, and the battlemaster fighter, disagree with your assumption. Also, no class has mechanical representation to come up with plans on the fly.

Battlemaster touches on similar ideas as the Warlord, but its too combat orientated and not support orientated enough. Much as the Spellthief does not negate the need for the wizard despite touching on wizard themes

Saying "Battlemaster is good enough" falls right into that "Well, let's just make Paladin, Ranger and Barbarian all different types of fighters" because they're all people who use weapons and fight.

That’s the role playing part, and isn’t limited to any class, fighter or rogue or wizard.

There is no ingame mechanic for this at present, the sort of thing a Warlord would do

 

[Stalker0]

I personally feel the Battlemaster is a perfect chassis for the Warlord, its just missing a few maneuvers. The rally maneuver is close but could use a sprucing. It would be nice to have an int based manuever to allow for the intelligent "warlord" motif.

But I think with a few maneuvers (and throw in the inspiring leader feat) it is very possible to get the vast majority of what the warlord concept does without needing a whole new class.