Why Do You Hate An RPG System?

[prabe]

No, there isn't. That's why I pick people who like to enjoy the same kind of game that I like. None of my players would fail to pick a personality and roleplay it. That's just the kind of players that they are. They don't all achieve it to the same degree, but as long as a player is trying, that's all I ask.

As someone whose campaigns are both in gaming stores (and I didn't have complete control of who joined, and I was specifically looking to game with new people anyway), I believe the DM also has some minor influence, here. If you run a campaign to reward murderhobos, you'll get murderhobos; if run it to reward a different playstyle, you'll probably get something closer to that.

 

[Maxperson]

As someone whose campaigns are both in gaming stores (and I didn't have complete control of who joined, and I was specifically looking to game with new people anyway), I believe the DM also has some minor influence, here. If you run a campaign to reward murderhobos, you'll get murderhobos; if run it to reward a different playstyle, you'll probably get something closer to that.

I agree. I've found that if I play the NPCs as people and engage new players in dialogue that wanders a bit, includes the likes and dislikes of the NPCs and such, the new players will pick up on that and start getting into character. Over time it becomes habit for them and it branches out into them coming up with personality ideas for their PCs.

 

[hawkeyefan]

As someone whose campaigns are both in gaming stores (and I didn't have complete control of who joined, and I was specifically looking to game with new people anyway), I believe the DM also has some minor influence, here. If you run a campaign to reward murderhobos, you'll get murderhobos; if run it to reward a different playstyle, you'll probably get something closer to that.

Yeah, like Max I benefit from playing with a steady group of players who I know well. But I know that’s not the case for everyone.

And I agree it’s a combo of player and DM. But there’s another element that plays a part and that’s the rules system. Specifically, what the game incentivizes through XP or other rewards.

At its most basic, a game is about what it rewards. That’s what it is pushing you to do. So D&D is about killing things.

Now, players and DM can change the focus a bit, or create situations where there’s other concerns at play....but XP for kills is a huge part of the situation.

 

[prabe]

Now, players and DM can change the focus a bit, or create situations where there’s other concerns at play....but XP for kills is a huge part of the situation.

Which is why I don't give XP for kills. I don't use XP at all. The characters advance in level when they do what I feel is enough to advance the stories they're pursuing. (I keep intending to make this more ... methodical, or objective, but that keeps not happening, and I don't share that with the players anyway ...) Because so many class abilities are combat-oriented, I prefer to give them a chance to play with the shiny new before giving them more shinier newer, but that's the closest I come to XP for kills.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Which is why I don't give XP for kills. I don't use XP at all. The characters advance in level when they do what I feel is enough to advance the stories they're pursuing. (I keep intending to make this more ... methodical, or objective, but that keeps not happening, and I don't share that with the players anyway ...) Because so many class abilities are combat-oriented, I prefer to give them a chance to play with the shiny new before giving them more shinier newer, but that's the closest I come to XP for kills.

Yeah, I do the same thing....we use a sort of milestone leveling which is kind of based on the pace of play. As the goals they're pursuing takes shape, I kind of decide a good goal that I'll use to trigger the level up. I haven't come up with a more objective method without feeling like I'd be railroading them, so I keep it fluid and go with my gut.

Like I said, it can be tweaked. Changing the reward system can be a big part of that. Having players who won't simply pursue the most "optimal" means of achieving success in the game, is another. And having a DM who actively works to mitigate that kind of play and promote something different is another.

 

[Maxperson]

I give XP for kills, and for defeats, and for negotiations, and for roleplaying in general. The PCs can get as much XP from a night of pure roleplaying as they do for a night of fighting. By incentivizing all types of play, the focus comes off of monster kills, so the players don't feel the need to kill everything even though killing also gives XP.

 

[prabe]

I give XP for kills, and for defeats, and for negotiations, and for roleplaying in general. The PCs can get as much XP from a night of pure roleplaying as they do for a night of fighting. By incentivizing all types of play, the focus comes off of monster kills, so the players don't feel the need to kill everything even though killing also gives XP.

That's doesn't seem radically different, though in principle it sounds as though your characters can advance without fighting anything (which I don't do, because reasons). Story beats (for lack of a better term) are just a smaller number.

 

[Maxperson]

That's doesn't seem radically different, though in principle it sounds as though your characters can advance without fighting anything (which I don't do, because reasons). Story beats (for lack of a better term) are just a smaller number.

They can advance that way, but in practice it doesn't happen. Fights are fun, so I provide them and the players engage.

 

[Arilyn]

A game we found incredibly frustrating was the Marvel Supers game that Marvel themselves put out. It relied heavily on the characters using energy for everything they did, but it was pretty easy to run out of energy fast. I accidentally made my character OP because one of his main powers was draining energy. He actually looked a little weak on paper but in play he could just keep going while sucking out that valuable energy from the villians. We had a really interesting group of players and the GM kept the game going for a while but it just got so frustrating, even with the rule changes the GM implemented.

Comercially, the game didn't last long. Not surprising, as it really did have broken rules.

 

[Anoth]

Sometime you can destroy a system by trying to make rules so that it can’t be abused. The easier solution is to just not abuse the systems because the mechanics you put in place to stop the abuse may ruin other aspects of the system.