D&D 5E Some thoughts on Warfare in DnD

[Minigiant]

Warhammer Fantasy tabletop is kind of my default. It fits, mostly, but I'm also really familiar with it. If you tack on some notions from DBA to account for the scale of units it works for me.

Yeah, WHFB more or less displays this. In the base assumption of D&D, having PC level ability scores is super rare. And even having elite NPC scores is rare. And it isn't that strong genetically.

So Noble families, high and low, of elite or PC stats would be rare outside of divine intervention. At best, you'd need an organization scouring the nation for special individuals to train into mages and paladins. Default D&D looks like Bretonnia or the Old Empire. You won't have enough strong mages to nuke an army.

 

[Fenris-77]

Actually, to be more specific, if I really wanted to mimic D&D warfare I'd use a combination of Warhammer Ancients and 2nd Ed Warhammer Fantasy. Lower end base troops in more variety and a higher end for the tough stuff.

 

[Umbran]

I know that rules and most setting don’t handle this.
Noble able to train and equip was very rare in medieval world.
maybe around 1:1000, I’m not a specialist.
but for large kingdom with millions of people it can make thousand of mage.

Okay, perhaps I'm not being clear....

I don't care if you say that there are a thousand mages. I'm saying that having a thousand mages has great impact to a nation beyond what happens in war - largely because they don't go away when the war ends.

Yes, with a thousand mages, the face of war changes. But the face of the entire society changes as well.

 

[Fenris-77]

That's assuming you can wrangle 1000 mages into marching into battle for you even if that many exist. In most settings mages are pretty standoffish and I can't see that being an easy sell, herding cats is what sprang to mind first. Most mages are too busy doing, you know, mage stuff, in tall towers or dank laboratories and whatnot to be bothered with all that marching about and sleeping outside nonsense.

 

[Krachek]

Okay, perhaps I'm not being clear....

I don't care if you say that there are a thousand mages. I'm saying that having a thousand mages has great impact to a nation beyond what happens in war - largely because they don't go away when the war ends.

Yes, with a thousand mages, the face of war changes. But the face of the entire society changes as well.

They can if they want.
but they can also live in a closed elite group, trading, mating, teaching among them
just like noble in medieval world. They will have magnificent keep and meeting place but not necessarily share their power and knowledge.

 

[Oofta]

Also assumes that those 1000 mages are what I would call war mages. In general, PCs will be war mages in that they've specialized in prepping spells only to release that energy in a moment.

Which gets into a lot of other philosophy of how to handle NPC mages, suffice to say that I think it makes sense that in a world where magic works there would be a lot of people taking advantage of it. However, very few could cast fireball.

Then again I use the alternate rest rules so casting a couple of fireballs every other week isn't going to really turn the tide of many battles. I also think people underestimate the sheer size of armies because of the scale of encounters that are represented in film.

 

[Tonguez]

Yeah, WHFB more or less displays this. In the base assumption of D&D, having PC level ability scores is super rare. And even having elite NPC scores is rare. And it isn't that strong genetically.

So Noble families, high and low, of elite or PC stats would be rare outside of divine intervention. At best, you'd need an organization scouring the nation for special individuals to train into mages and paladins. Default D&D looks like Bretonnia or the Old Empire. You won't have enough strong mages to nuke an army.

The thing is
1 you dont have to nuke the entire army to defeat it - just enough of them to have the others break (there needs to be morale rules for DnD armies)
2 you dont need an army of mages to break morale - just a couple using cloudkill or chain lightning or such should be enough, not to mention create undead etc etc

 

[Krachek]

That's assuming you can wrangle 1000 mages into marching into battle for you even if that many exist. In most settings mages are pretty standoffish and I can't see that being an easy sell, herding cats is what sprang to mind first. Most mages are too busy doing, you know, mage stuff, in tall towers or dank laboratories and whatnot to be bothered with all that marching about and sleeping outside nonsense.

historical Nobles go to war with with squires, servant, cook, barber, tent.
They were not always happy to go to war, because they have their own noble business to take care too. If a wizard can go adventuring, he can go to war!

 

[Umbran]

They can if they want.
but they can also live in a closed elite group, trading, mating, teaching among them
just like noble in medieval world. They will have magnificent keep and meeting place but not necessarily share their power and knowledge.

It isn't about "sharing their power and knowledge" necessarily.

Do these people just shut their powers off when not at war? No? Then you've got a thousand people slinging spells between wars. That will have an impact.

I am not specifying what impact is has, but, "we have a thousand spellcasters in war, and otherwise they have no impact on our world and culture," is not very plausible.

 

[Krachek]

Also assumes that those 1000 mages are what I would call war mages. In general, PCs will be war mages in that they've specialized in prepping spells only to release that energy in a moment.

Which gets into a lot of other philosophy of how to handle NPC mages, suffice to say that I think it makes sense that in a world where magic works there would be a lot of people taking advantage of it. However, very few could cast fireball.

Then again I use the alternate rest rules so casting a couple of fireballs every other week isn't going to really turn the tide of many battles. I also think people underestimate the sheer size of armies because of the scale of encounters that are represented in film.

I know what I write down is far away from core assumption, but sometime ask What if... shakes some usual idea.