Pathfinder 2E A few short thoughts on play of the Absalom Initiation

[CapnZapp]

Yep, stupefied for a whole day. That is harsh.

Yes, especially when you consider how many few spells a first level caster has. It's one thing to lose 25% of two dozen spell slots - you still have 18 spells at your disposal on average. It's quite another to lose 25% of maybe three spell slots - the probability of losing all of them isn't exactly negligible...

The lesson to learn here, I think, is: "don't be a low-level spellcaster"

 

[dave2008]

*) 5th edition has ruined today's gamers, who know nothing of 1d4 hit point Wizards or what a "save or die" roll means. Now get off my lawn!

I think most would say it started with 4e. You had to be a very nasty DM to kill a 4e party.

 

[dave2008]

The lesson to learn here, I think, is: "don't be a low-level spellcaster"

Not a bad strategy I guess. Start off in another class and then MC to a wizard.

 

[CapnZapp]

Not a bad strategy I guess. Start off in another class and then MC to a wizard.

Paizo, being obsessive about balance, has even closed off that "loophole".

You can't multiclass in the D&D sense in PF2.

What you can do is called a "multiclass dedication archetype".

Perhaps the easiest way to explain it to a D&D5 gamer is:

Imagine there were a whole chain of Magic Initiate feats, letting you gain spell slots of ever-higher levels, not just cantrips and 1st level.

If a Fighter takes these feats, he remains 100% a Fighter as he levels up, albeit perhaps not the very deadliest one (since he doesn't increase his Strength or take the Greatweapon Master feat, etc).

He does gain one spell slot of every level, giving him some spellcasting ability. He has way fewer spells than a Wizard; his Intelligence is probably lower, and gets no special Wizard abilities.

This is exactly how "multiclassing" works in Pathfinder 2.

What this means is that there's no shortcuts to power.

 

[MerricB]

This is exactly how "multiclassing" works in Pathfinder 2.

What this means is that there's no shortcuts to power.

It's very close to 4E multiclassing, in a lot of ways.

My Wizard was a universalist with the ability to cast FOUR first-level spells! And the feat that allowed me to rededicate my spell slots in ten minutes or so. And he has all but five of the non-Lore skills. It's a pretty interesting build.

I decided half-way through the session that my best chance of being successful was to make the GM do the rolling - thus the critical hit with Lightning Arc, which I didn't have to roll... (more correctly, a critical failure by the GM on behalf of the monster).

Cheers!

 

[JeffB]

I think most would say it started with 4e. You had to be a very nasty DM to kill a 4e party.

It was all downhill when they went from

STR, INT, WIS,DEX,CON,CHR

to

STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS,CHR

 

[billd91]

The second was I got hit by stupefied from one monster. Which meant, for the rest of the session, my Wizard had a 25% chance of failing to cast any spell - and there was no way of removing it. In certain situations, this is the sort of thing that would make me walk out and never bother with the game again. It still bothers me. (It required me to critically fail a save, so my dice luck was amazingly poor for most of the session.)

I can see why it would bother you. It’s not that hard to crit fail a save, particularly when that save DC is 17. You’re not the only one a bit concerned with PF2’s numbers.

 

[JeffB]

Paizo, being obsessive about balance, has even closed off that "loophole".

You can't multiclass in the D&D sense in PF2.

What you can do is called a "multiclass dedication archetype".

Perhaps the easiest way to explain it to a D&D5 gamer is:

Imagine there were a whole chain of Magic Initiate feats, letting you gain spell slots of ever-higher levels, not just cantrips and 1st level.

If a Fighter takes these feats, he remains 100% a Fighter as he levels up, albeit perhaps not the very deadliest one (since he doesn't increase his Strength or take the Greatweapon Master feat, etc).

He does gain one spell slot of every level, giving him some spellcasting ability. He has way fewer spells than a Wizard; his Intelligence is probably lower, and gets no special Wizard abilities.

This is exactly how "multiclassing" works in Pathfinder 2.

What this means is that there's no shortcuts to power.

As a dedicated true-hater of traditional D&D multiclassing and as a DM who usually straight out bans the damned rules for it, I actually like PF2s approach. It feels more like T&T's Rogue Class or The Grey Mouser (whom T&T's Rogue was based on). You just don't become something completely different, you dabble in it a bit-which makes more sense from a verisimilitude standpoint.

"Yeah, I've been a wizard for 4 levels, but I'm probably gonna turn into a Barbarian at level 5- I've been feeling kinda ragey, lately."

I'm glad to see it die in PF- I wish it would die elsewhere too.

Ok. I feel better now having got that off my chest

 

[generic]

It was all downhill when they went from

STR, INT, WIS,DEX,CON,CHR

to

STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS,CHR

The worst part is when they changed CHR to CHA.

Smh.

Smh...

 

[MerricB]

*) 5th edition has ruined today's gamers, who know nothing of 1d4 hit point Wizards or what a "save or die" roll means. Now get off my lawn!

I was running sessions of Original Dungeons & Dragons last year for a 2nd-level magic-user with all of TWO hit points! (She survived to reach 3rd level!) At third level... she had two hit points.

(Seriously! Original D&D MU hit points: 1st level: 1d6. 2nd level: 1d6+1. 3rd level: 2d6. Guess who rolled a one for their second hit dice!)

There are aspects of some 5E DCs that I'm concerned about, but PF maths seems very brutal.

Cheers!