MonkeezOnFire
Adventurer
So in another thread on concentration here I said that I like concentration as a mechanic but it is too liberally attached to spells. There are a number of spells that just aren't competitive enough to see play and in many cases concentration is what is really holding them back. So the purpose of this thread is to give the spells a good comb over and remove concentration from anything that really doesn't deserve it.
It turns out that there are a lot of concentration spells. By my count over 200.
So to to start I'm going to propose some guidelines. I've going to define a few categories and list which categories I think should be eligible for consideration and which can be safely skipped over. These categories are not meant to be exhaustive, there's no way we can cram every spell into a distinctive category. They're just meant to be a tool to reference when I do a first pass through the concentration spells.
Also since this is homebrew we can adjust other sliders for spells like increasing spell level, reducing duration, etc. I'm going to shy away from proposals like that for now and consider them when I get around to judging individual spells. I will propose some wording changes to how spells work if it can affect an entire category neatly.
These are just my initial thoughts and I'm interested in feedback. Is there a category that I missed that you feel can be categorized one way or another? Do you think I've mislabeled a category? And inevitably, what are the weird corner case spells that clearly fall into one of the categories but should be the opposite of its peers?
Spells that can probably have concentration removed:
Damage spells that require an action to utilize on later turns.
Examples: Vampiric Touch, Witch Bolt, Flame Blade
Maybe examples: Sunbeam? Xanathar's Investiture spells?
These spells have the double whammy of not being able to use other spells as well as the vulnerability of concentration. Sunbeam's aoe and blind might justify keeping concentration but its competing with 6th level spells where the stakes are significantly raised. The Xanathar's investiture spells give passive buffs but are somewhat lackluster overall.
What's the worst that could happen?
You'd be able to set a concentration buff, debuff or area control spell before utilizing these as a go to at will. That's already possible with Spiritual Weapon and while it's strong it doesn't break the game in my experience. As long as the initial damage from these spells falls behind instantaneous blast effects of similar level then I think they are relatively balanced. You get more damage overall at the cost of it being over time. While this does allow casters to cruise by and get more mileage out of a spell slot, the ability to nova hard up front will always have its place.
Defensive combat buff spells (that don't have any exploration utility)
Examples: Blur, Stoneskin, Protection from Energy
So it doesn't feel great to have to concentrate on defense, largely because of the concentration save mechanic. These spells like others have a chance to drop when you take damage. It just feels extra bad to lose these spells to damage because they are supposed to be protecting you from that in the first place.
What's the worst that could happen?
Defense buff stacking. Or "good luck I'm behind Mirror Image, Blur, Stoneskin, Flame Shield, and Protection from Evil and Good!" But many of these don't last too long, especially the lower level ones. Each one set up also costs precious spell slots so it's not exactly a sustainable strategy.
The other issue is spreading around multiple buffs to the entire party. Without concentration you can Protection from Energy the entire party from fire damage before facing off with the dragon. This might require some kind of errata within the spell to limit the number of instances of a spell you can have up. In return you can add at higher level cast scaling to grant additional targets. Something like 1 target per 2 spell levels for something like Stoneskin.
Spells that buff or create weapons
Examples: Magic Weapon, Elemental Weapon, Shadow Blade
These spells are usually meant to be used by martial characters that can get access to magic like the Eldritch Knight, Paladin, or Ranger. However, these types of characters often take more punishment than their caster peers and as a result are likely to lose concentration. These can theoretically also be used by pure casters to buff their martial friends but I've never seen that happen, primarily because using your concentration to buff an ally is something not a lot of players find fun.
What's the worst that could happen?
The same issues as above. Stacking and/or spreading. With weapon buffs you could errata them to only work on weapons you hold. As for stacking, these characters don't typically have a plethora of spell slots so it represents a significant portion of power. Personally I think that saving up all your resources to just unload on the boss fight is a legitimate strategy if you can get through everything that comes before without expending resources. Still, if you don't want the paladin to be rocking an Elemental Weapon + Divine Favor greatsword you could errata one buff per weapon.
Spells that augment weapon attacks (that don't have an ongoing effect)
Examples: Thunderous Smite, Hail of Thorns, Lightning Arrow
These spells augment a single attack with a one time use effect. I think they were given concentration to give them counter play if they missed with their attacks that round then enemies would have a chance to drop the spell before the character could attack again. In reality it just means these spells interfere with Hunter's Mark, Shield of Faith, and Bless so that they are never used.
Note: For the variations of the smite spells that have a continuous effect like Wrathful Smite with it's fear, I am going to initially propose that those keep concentration.
What's the worst that could happen?
Rangers get some aoe pseudo-smites. Paladins get lower damage smites with riders. Honestly, I don't think these are too game changing.
Spells that should probably NOT have concentration removed:
Save or suck spells without recurring saving throws
Examples: Polymorph, Banishment
Basically there needs to be some kind of method to get rid of these that isn't waiting them out. Counter play is good for the game.
AOE save or suck spells
Examples: Fear, Hypnotic Pattern, Confusion
Even if a spell has conditions to end it, if it affects multiple creatures there should be additional counter play due to the relative efficiency of these spells.
Environment Hazards/Control effects
Examples: Web, Cloud of Daggers, Wall of Force, Wall of Water, Really any of the Wall spells
These spells vary wildly in power. Just looking at the wall spells you have the no save control of Wall of Force, to the barely a deterrent of any kind Wall of Water. You have great damage spells like Moonbeam and then you have terrible damage spells like Cloud of Daggers. But I think taking away the only counter play these spells have and opening them up to be spammed in tight dungeons is too much. Even for something as pathetic as Cloud of Daggers. You could modify each spell individually to give them counter play or limits. But then the system becomes very fiddly as you try to remember exactly what to do to counter each thing.
It turns out that there are a lot of concentration spells. By my count over 200.
So to to start I'm going to propose some guidelines. I've going to define a few categories and list which categories I think should be eligible for consideration and which can be safely skipped over. These categories are not meant to be exhaustive, there's no way we can cram every spell into a distinctive category. They're just meant to be a tool to reference when I do a first pass through the concentration spells.
Also since this is homebrew we can adjust other sliders for spells like increasing spell level, reducing duration, etc. I'm going to shy away from proposals like that for now and consider them when I get around to judging individual spells. I will propose some wording changes to how spells work if it can affect an entire category neatly.
These are just my initial thoughts and I'm interested in feedback. Is there a category that I missed that you feel can be categorized one way or another? Do you think I've mislabeled a category? And inevitably, what are the weird corner case spells that clearly fall into one of the categories but should be the opposite of its peers?
Spells that can probably have concentration removed:
Damage spells that require an action to utilize on later turns.
Examples: Vampiric Touch, Witch Bolt, Flame Blade
Maybe examples: Sunbeam? Xanathar's Investiture spells?
These spells have the double whammy of not being able to use other spells as well as the vulnerability of concentration. Sunbeam's aoe and blind might justify keeping concentration but its competing with 6th level spells where the stakes are significantly raised. The Xanathar's investiture spells give passive buffs but are somewhat lackluster overall.
What's the worst that could happen?
You'd be able to set a concentration buff, debuff or area control spell before utilizing these as a go to at will. That's already possible with Spiritual Weapon and while it's strong it doesn't break the game in my experience. As long as the initial damage from these spells falls behind instantaneous blast effects of similar level then I think they are relatively balanced. You get more damage overall at the cost of it being over time. While this does allow casters to cruise by and get more mileage out of a spell slot, the ability to nova hard up front will always have its place.
Defensive combat buff spells (that don't have any exploration utility)
Examples: Blur, Stoneskin, Protection from Energy
So it doesn't feel great to have to concentrate on defense, largely because of the concentration save mechanic. These spells like others have a chance to drop when you take damage. It just feels extra bad to lose these spells to damage because they are supposed to be protecting you from that in the first place.
What's the worst that could happen?
Defense buff stacking. Or "good luck I'm behind Mirror Image, Blur, Stoneskin, Flame Shield, and Protection from Evil and Good!" But many of these don't last too long, especially the lower level ones. Each one set up also costs precious spell slots so it's not exactly a sustainable strategy.
The other issue is spreading around multiple buffs to the entire party. Without concentration you can Protection from Energy the entire party from fire damage before facing off with the dragon. This might require some kind of errata within the spell to limit the number of instances of a spell you can have up. In return you can add at higher level cast scaling to grant additional targets. Something like 1 target per 2 spell levels for something like Stoneskin.
Spells that buff or create weapons
Examples: Magic Weapon, Elemental Weapon, Shadow Blade
These spells are usually meant to be used by martial characters that can get access to magic like the Eldritch Knight, Paladin, or Ranger. However, these types of characters often take more punishment than their caster peers and as a result are likely to lose concentration. These can theoretically also be used by pure casters to buff their martial friends but I've never seen that happen, primarily because using your concentration to buff an ally is something not a lot of players find fun.
What's the worst that could happen?
The same issues as above. Stacking and/or spreading. With weapon buffs you could errata them to only work on weapons you hold. As for stacking, these characters don't typically have a plethora of spell slots so it represents a significant portion of power. Personally I think that saving up all your resources to just unload on the boss fight is a legitimate strategy if you can get through everything that comes before without expending resources. Still, if you don't want the paladin to be rocking an Elemental Weapon + Divine Favor greatsword you could errata one buff per weapon.
Spells that augment weapon attacks (that don't have an ongoing effect)
Examples: Thunderous Smite, Hail of Thorns, Lightning Arrow
These spells augment a single attack with a one time use effect. I think they were given concentration to give them counter play if they missed with their attacks that round then enemies would have a chance to drop the spell before the character could attack again. In reality it just means these spells interfere with Hunter's Mark, Shield of Faith, and Bless so that they are never used.
Note: For the variations of the smite spells that have a continuous effect like Wrathful Smite with it's fear, I am going to initially propose that those keep concentration.
What's the worst that could happen?
Rangers get some aoe pseudo-smites. Paladins get lower damage smites with riders. Honestly, I don't think these are too game changing.
Spells that should probably NOT have concentration removed:
Save or suck spells without recurring saving throws
Examples: Polymorph, Banishment
Basically there needs to be some kind of method to get rid of these that isn't waiting them out. Counter play is good for the game.
AOE save or suck spells
Examples: Fear, Hypnotic Pattern, Confusion
Even if a spell has conditions to end it, if it affects multiple creatures there should be additional counter play due to the relative efficiency of these spells.
Environment Hazards/Control effects
Examples: Web, Cloud of Daggers, Wall of Force, Wall of Water, Really any of the Wall spells
These spells vary wildly in power. Just looking at the wall spells you have the no save control of Wall of Force, to the barely a deterrent of any kind Wall of Water. You have great damage spells like Moonbeam and then you have terrible damage spells like Cloud of Daggers. But I think taking away the only counter play these spells have and opening them up to be spammed in tight dungeons is too much. Even for something as pathetic as Cloud of Daggers. You could modify each spell individually to give them counter play or limits. But then the system becomes very fiddly as you try to remember exactly what to do to counter each thing.
