D&D 5E Have we rebalanced the Champion Yet?

[NotAYakk]

I kind of like the idea of adding additional action surge uses to the champion.

Not sure at all if this could be balanced.

I tried that too...

In a multiclass environment, it cannot; already, Champion crit range scales nicer with other class features than with fighter class feature.

What more, extra action surge scales with Extra Attack.

And the biggest gap is at level 3-4 and the next biggest gap is at 5-10. So this has the least oomph where it needs the most oomph.

 

[Don Durito]

I'm not sure how much extra damage is needed.

But I had considered letting the Champion "gather dice" on a miss. So everytime they miss (Except on a 1) they get a D6 and add it to their next damage roll that hits.

This is probably worth about 1 to 2 extra damage per attack.

 

[FrogReaver]

I tried that too...

In a multiclass environment, it cannot; already, Champion crit range scales nicer with other class features than with fighter class feature.

What more, extra action surge scales with Extra Attack.

And the biggest gap is at level 3-4 and the next biggest gap is at 5-10. So this has the least oomph where it needs the most oomph.

Next idea would be giving them a built in +1/+1 or +2/+2

 

[Quartz]

So, that aside, I've come back to the Champion. Jeeze, where do I begin. I feel like the general consensus is that it's weak, but not like super weak.

In addition to being a learner class it's also designed as a side-kick class or for drop-in players.

Both the Battlemaster and Champion fall behind other classes - particularly spellcasting classes - at levels 4 and 5. Everyone gets a feat at level 4 but lots of other classes get other things too: the Eldritch Knight gets an extra spell, for example. The combat classes generally get a second attack at level 5, but the Paladin and Ranger get two second level spells and the Barbarian gets Fast Movement. The Battlemaster and Champion get nothing extra at either level.

I suggest bringing forward Indomitable and allowing the Battlemaster and Champion to use their Proficiency Bonus instead of their Dex modifier when calculating AC (and later Initiative). Which way round you have them I leave to you.

I also suggest dropping the 6th level feat and replacing it with a Fighting Style or Action Surge for the Champion and 1 free maneuver per round for the Battlemaster.

 

[FrogReaver]

In addition to being a learner class it's also designed as a side-kick class or for drop-in players.

Both the Battlemaster and Champion fall behind other classes - particularly spellcasting classes - at levels 4 and 5. Everyone gets a feat at level 4 but lots of other classes get other things too: the Eldritch Knight gets an extra spell, for example. The combat classes generally get a second attack at level 5, but the Paladin and Ranger get two second level spells and the Barbarian gets Fast Movement. The Battlemaster and Champion get nothing extra at either level.

I suggest bringing forward Indomitable and allowing the Battlemaster and Champion to use their Proficiency Bonus instead of their Dex modifier when calculating AC (and later Initiative). Which way round you have them I leave to you.

I also suggest dropping the 6th level feat and replacing it with a Fighting Style or Action Surge for the Champion and 1 free maneuver per round for the Battlemaster.

I think you are mistaken about battlemasters.

 

[FrogReaver]

I also suggest dropping the 6th level feat and replacing it with a Fighting Style or Action Surge for the Champion and 1 free maneuver per round for the Battlemaster.

I think that's a bad suggestion. ASI/Feat at level 6 > Fighting Style or Manuever.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

I don't typically think nerfing other classes is as fun or effective as buffing less effective classes. My solution has been to grant a +2 bonus to damage whenever the Champion gets an improvement on their crit range. Seems to work fine for my table.

 

[fearsomepirate]

In addition to being a learner class it's also designed as a side-kick class or for drop-in players.

Both the Battlemaster and Champion fall behind other classes - particularly spellcasting classes - at levels 4 and 5. Everyone gets a feat at level 4 but lots of other classes get other things too: the Eldritch Knight gets an extra spell, for example. The combat classes generally get a second attack at level 5, but the Paladin and Ranger get two second level spells and the Barbarian gets Fast Movement. The Battlemaster and Champion get nothing extra at either level.

Extra Attack doubles your Action Surge potency.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

In reality, I see BMs hit their next short rest with unspent dice more often than not.

This is completely alien to me. A battlemaster can go through three or four superiority dice in a single round if they really want to, and because it's a short-rest resource, there's less worry about conserving them. I rarely see my battlemaster player make it to a short rest with unspent dice. And I very rarely run more than 2-3 encounters a day. For someone sticking to the fabled 6-8 encounter day, I can only imagine what it'd be like.

 

[Minigiant]

The Champion is supposed to be simple with rolling attack, damage, and healing rolls for beginners, drop ins, and extreme roleplayers

Let them double their Ability mod to weapon damage.