D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[Garthanos]

It’s okay if some functionalities don’t port over super well.

Arguably it only ports poorly because the Cavalier is a subclass instead of a parent one. Role level shifts including maneuvers that support marking multiple enemies and such do not work so well in a locked down single target attacker.

That is not some overwhelming design distinction

A class can be flexible enough that a subclass can make strong shifts spells based classes can because spell selection can have that effect the Fighter could have been written so that it could be @doctorbadwolf that is basically what I have been presenting in the thread about the captain. Thematically consistent ways to make the fighter fully shiftable.

 

[Garthanos]

Yes. Perhaps. But title of the thread is "Are powers samey," not "Are 4e characters samey."

You cannot conflate something in a different category with utterly different mechanics like 4e rituals as being same its in fact even more distinct. The rituals in 5e made them more samey to spells.

 

[Eric V]

Yeah, it would be so much better if everyone just followed the anti-4E handbook that the cabal gave us.

But no, people have to go off on tangents and have opinions of their own.

LOL, you're not disagreeing with me.

 

[Eric V]

Agree. I’m not sure that’s necessarily a weakness though. Cross class Subclasses in 5e would have felt more samey if they all were obtained at the same level and all had the same power level. I’d often considered that a failure of 5e in not having cookie cutter subclasses - but after reflecting on this thread I’m not sure I’d classify that as a failure anymore.

Well, we end up with Paladins of the Nine Hells who heal with a touch, protect people with their aura, and do radiant damage on smites, so...I'm going to continue to believe that too much was put on the class chassis versus the subclass chassis.

 

[Garthanos]

What is the same is that both follow the same cookie-cutter pattern of AEDU pattern with no flexibility.

That is called categorization at-will, short rest, long rest daily and utility abilities exist in 5e it didnt go away. Oh my I have pts and he has dice so completely different chortle.

 

[Garthanos]

Praise to the gods of useless mechanical distinction the difference that makes no difference.

 

[Minigiant]

Yes. Perhaps. But title of the thread is "Are powers samey," not "Are 4e characters samey."

Yes, and my table displays that. 4e powers are as samey as 5e spells or 3e attacks.

4e Powers do a moderate range of effects. All PC classes use them. However it only handle all levels of offense, low levels of defense and low levels of utility.

5e Spells do a wide range of effects. Only certain classes can use then and fewer can use them fully. However it handles all levels of offense, defense, and utility.

3e attacks do a narrow range of effects. All PC classes and NPCs use them. However it only handles all levels of offense.

Personal preference on what samey is.

 

[Garthanos]

As opposed to every martial class getting a trip and strike take down and a press attack and a grab and strike? i think that is blatant bull. I suppose shared across every martial class and exactly the same is not samey its the same and that is completely different.

In 4e that grapple strike is a specialist trick not even something every other fighter can do let alone every one who fights with weapons

Interestingly i do not necessarily think that it was a design flaw.... but thinking 5e is keeping more things unique to class is a joke.

 

[Maxperson]

Well, we end up with Paladins of the Nine Hells who heal with a touch, protect people with their aura, and do radiant damage on smites, so...I'm going to continue to believe that too much was put on the class chassis versus the subclass chassis.

I agree that too much was put into the class and not enough into subclass. I think that at 3rd level you should just fork off into the subclass and any ability that should be present in multiple subclasses could just be added into that progression.

 

[Garthanos]

These types of spells are why I wonder 4e power more samey than 5e spells.

That actually is a good point its not actually fair to compare 4e spells to 5e spells directly you have to compare 4e spells plus rituals to 5e spells since 5e spells ate a lot of things 4e put into that separate category ie rituals (and 5e has minimal rituals with next to none as rituals in comparison to hundreds in 4e). Lumping things differently based on category oh my things within that category end up a bit more the same with each other hmmm I wonder why that happens.... smh.