D&D 5E Predictions, what stats do you think Leonin will have?

[Charlaquin]

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It occurs to me that it could be as simple as giving them +2 Strength and +1 Wisdom and the exact same features as Lions in 5e.

That means:


Keen Smell. The Leonin has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on smell.

Pack Tactics. The Leonin has advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of the lion's allies is within 5 ft. of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated.

Pounce. If the Leonin moves at least 20 ft. straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 13 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the Leonin can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action.

Running Leap. With a 10-foot running start, the Leonins can long jump up to 25 ft..

Claws attack and maybe a bite attack.

That would fit both white mana (pack tactic very orderly community based) and lion themes and make them very distinct from Tabaxi. Maybe pounce optional works with weapons.

That would make them Strength based Rangers, good Clerics, Druids, Strength based Monks, Fighters, Strength Rogue, Paladins, and Barbarians.

That’s a good place to look for inspiration, but I wouldn’t expect to see keen smell on a PC race, pack tactics doesn’t make sense to me because Leonin I’m Theros are fairly isolated and fight in small bands at most, and an ability like Pounce would most definitely be toned down for a PC race, maybe limiting it to like Strength mod times per day or something.

 

[gyor]

Divine magic and healing/buffing effects are certainly part of white’s identity, but there’s far more to white than that, and that aspect isn’t really strongly tied to the Leonin. White is also the color of militarism (which translates to the game as having many small, cheap creatures you can overwhelm your opponents with) and one of the colors with the most equipment support, which are both more in the Leonin’s wheelhouse than divine magic.

I do think +2 Strength +1 Wisdom is likely to be their ability spread though.


That seems unlikely to me given that the Leonin on Theros are isolated to small tribes and rely more on ambush tactics.

Small tribes can form a pack (or Pride), and they do seem to have at least one city or Den of their own.

Plus a bunch of cheap small creatures or equiptment being a white mana think really doesn't seem applable to racial traits. Look at what Lions get in 5e, look at white mana traits that would fit as racial traits, and you get what what I discribed.

 

[gyor]

That’s a good place to look for inspiration, but I wouldn’t expect to see keen smell on a PC race, pack tactics doesn’t make sense to me because Leonin I’m Theros are fairly isolated and fight in small bands at most, and an ability like Pounce would most definitely be toned down for a PC race, maybe limiting it to like Strength mod times per day or something.

Small groups are still groups, and pack tactics does not require huge numbers to work. It really works best with small teams. The realitive isolation of Leonin tribes has no bearing on anything.

Pounce is equal to a good feat. We've had keen senses on a race before, its hardly broken, its borderline ribbon ability.

 

[gyor]

Instead of keen smell, Leonin might just get profiencies in perception and maybe stealth like Tabaxi. Maybe.

 

[Charlaquin]

Small tribes can form a pack (or Pride), and they do seem to have at least one city or Den of their own.

That’s not a great metric though, since literally every race lives in communities. The bigger issue is that when the very first paragraph about Leonin in Planes walker’s Gide to Theros is “ Beyond the borders of Akros lie the leonin dens. They are scattered throughout the rocky scrublands and low mountains, away from the human poleis of Theros. The leonin keep to themselves, interacting with other races only when they must: for trade and, occasionally, for raids.” my first instinct is not “there’s a race defined by having pack tactics!” Also, pack tactics is a very powerful ability, the only PC race that currently has it has multiple drawbacks (-2 strength and sunlight sensitivity).

Plus a bunch of cheap small creatures or equiptment being a white mana think really doesn't seem applable to racial traits.

The bunch of small creatures thing doesn’t, but the equipment support absolutely translates into weapon proficiencies, which is why I suggested them in my first post in the thread. I will be very surprised if Leonin don’t get some weapon proficiencies, as equipment support is one of the creature type’s defining features.

Pounce is equal to a good feat.

Yes but look at other races that have been based on creatures that exist in the monster manual. The Minotaur had its goring charge severely nerfed and the centaur had its charge attack nerfed in damage and limited in uses per day. I would expect the same to happen to pounce.

We've had keen senses on a race before, its hardly broken, its borderline ribbon ability.

Fair enough.

 

[gyor]

That’s not a great metric though, since literally every race lives in communities. The bigger issue is that when the very first paragraph about Leonin in Planes walker’s Gide to Theros is “ Beyond the borders of Akros lie the leonin dens. They are scattered throughout the rocky scrublands and low mountains, away from the human poleis of Theros. The leonin keep to themselves, interacting with other races only when they must: for trade and, occasionally, for raids.” my first instinct is not “there’s a race defined by having pack tactics!” Also, pack tactics is a very powerful ability, the only PC race that currently has it has multiple drawbacks (-2 strength and sunlight sensitivity).


The bunch of small creatures thing doesn’t, but the equipment support absolutely translates into weapon proficiencies, which is why I suggested them in my first post in the thread. I will be very surprised if Leonin don’t get some weapon proficiencies, as equipment support is one of the creature type’s defining features.


Yes but look at other races that have been based on creatures that exist in the monster manual. The Minotaur had its goring charge severely nerfed and the centaur had its charge attack nerfed in damage and limited in uses per day. I would expect the same to happen to pounce.


Fair enough.

Pounce might be limited in times per day ad even Leap. What kind of equiptment would they be profient in?

Also yeah Pack tactics is powerful, but look at all the goodies Satyr's get, I think both will be in Yuan Ti Pureblood territory as to power level, they are both "mythic races". Satyr's for example get magic resistance and abunch of other stuff, I forget the whole list.

 

[Charlaquin]

Pounce might be limited in times per day ad even Leap. What kind of equiptment would they be profient in?

I said in my first post, scimitars seem likely, as do short swords. Spears are possibly, longswords maybe, nets maybe... Based on Elves’ and dwarves’ weapon proficiencies, I would expect four total, so my bet is scimitar, shortsword, spear, net.

 

[Marandahir]

Also yeah Pack tactics is powerful, but look at all the goodies Satyr's get, I think both will be in Yuan Ti Pureblood territory as to power level, they are both "mythic races". Satyr's for example get magic resistance and abunch of other stuff, I forget the whole list.

Where'd you see the Satyr race features?

 

[gyor]

Where'd you see the Satyr race features?

I'll tell you when I remember.

 

[gyor]

I remember! Its from Dragon +

"and the satyr is also brand new. Satyrs are pretty much as you would expect. They’re party animals with good Dexterity and Charisma, they have a headbutt attack, they’re fast, they’re fey, they resist magic and they have musical instrument proficiency and persuasion."