D&D 5E How to not murder my PC's

[Boughbuts]

i have been playing for almost 14 years. as a PC i always run what would work best for my team but still play what i want. i do think it might be a lack of teamwork. the big fight versus a veteran they split the party and didnt tell the others so they had to sit and watch as their friends got wrecked. i really appreciate the ideas. i have another game tonight coming up and they will be tasked with entering the dragon hatchery. i have even looked up outlines and other sources for how to make the campaign work around the sort of party i have maybe i need to work with a couple of them one on one to help them understand what they are capable of...

 

[Boughbuts]

And by the way, welcome to ENWorld. There's some XP for you.

Thank you!!

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I disagree with punishing the players for choosing classes they want to play.

Sure it would be nice for the DM (easier) if players choose to be the fighter and the cleric, but what if no one wants to. Being roped into a role you don't want to play is less satisfying for some folks.

I cannot imagine a newish DM getting a positive reaction form his players with a TPK and announcing, "That's what you get for not having a fighter!" That's counter to fun IMO.

Is that punishing players? I don't think so. Punishing players would be more like, "I don't like wizards, so I'll add some counterspelling kobolds in the encounter." I'm simply advocating to leave the players with the consequences for their actions.

If the party simply isn't strong enough, they can decide to go do some other adventurers, gain a level or two, then come back to HOTDQ. That's what I'd do.

 

[BacchusNL]

Is that punishing players? I don't think so. Punishing players would be more like, "I don't like wizards, so I'll add some counterspelling kobolds in the encounter." I'm simply advocating to leave the players with the consequences for their actions.

If the party simply isn't strong enough, they can decide to go do some other adventurers, gain a level or two, then come back to HOTDQ. That's what I'd do.

That "let's go grind boars in the forest"-plan still requires the DM and the rest of the party to feel the same way, and create/ do that content. If they just want to continue with the story then some house-rules might suit better.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

That "let's go grind boars in the forest"-plan still requires the DM and the rest of the party to feel the same way, and create/ do that content. If they just want to continue with the story then some house-rules might suit better.

I don't think about it like "let's go grind boars in the forest." It's more like, if you want to fight a black belt and win, you probably need to be a black belt yourself. So let's grapple with some brown belts, learn some new techniques, and come back when we're ready.

Other options for the PCs could come up with:

• Venture to find a magic items to help them.
• Hire some body guards
• Find a new adventure and let the dragon cultists be
• Join the bad guys and become a dragon cultist (this one sounds fun!)
• Change the party line up
• Come up with a better plan
• Make some magic scrolls

Ultimately, though I think we have a different conception of the fantasy world.

Perspective A: The world exists for the PCs and revolves around them.
Perspective B: The world exists and the PCs can find their own path through it.
Perspectives C-ZZZ: Something else.

For me, Perspective B doesn't work. I have 3 groups who all adventure out of the same hub. One group might be working for the dragon queen. Another might be trying to stop her. Another might be doing something else entirely. Groups might trade magic items with each other. They might try to assassinate for each. They might compete to find the same treasures. Sometimes players switch from one group to another. Sometimes players have character in multiple groups. It's a blast, but requires a persistent world.

So when I give advice I'm coming from Perspective A, which I find much more fun than perspective B - but to each his/her own.

 

[S'mon]

Maybe they could hire some NPC meatshields of their own? A single Veteran would really help!

 

[Lanefan]

I disagree with punishing the players for choosing classes they want to play.

Ditto.

But I'm quite happy punishing the crap out of them if they don't recruit NPCs to fill the gaps in their lineup, once they realize those gaps exist. (and four levels in, they ought to have figured these things out by now even if they're all brand new to it; but if they haven't maybe the DM might want to let them rescue a Fighter-4 NPC prisoner somewhere who's willing to join up if the party equip her.......)

 

[Lanefan]

Ultimately, though I think we have a different conception of the fantasy world.

Perspective A: The world exists for the PCs and revolves around them.
Perspective B: The world exists and the PCs can find their own path through it.
Perspectives C-ZZZ: Something else.

For me, Perspective A doesn't work. [...]

So when I give advice I'm coming from Perspective A, which I find much more fun than perspective B - but to each his/her own.

Something doesn't make sense here: you say Perspective A doesn't work and then turn around and say your advice is coming from Perspective A?

Errrr........OK.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But I'm quite happy punishing the crap out of them if they don't recruit NPCs to fill the gaps in their lineup.

It's the responsibility of the DM to make that available as an option. Not all games feature a "rent a merc" shop, and there are certainly none in HOTDQ.

 

[BacchusNL]

Something doesn't make sense here: you say Perspective A doesn't work and then turn around and say your advice is coming from Perspective A?

Errrr........OK.

I was going to point out the same thing, though I guess it was a typo and he prefers B? But that still assumes that most DM's have several groups that all play in an inter-connected story line though....