D&D 5E Survey: What should the next Magic the Gathering Campaign Setting be?

[Umbran]

The problems with government is defining what is good. Abortion is a wonderful example.

Mod Note:

I am not sure what led you to think that discussion of government and abortion would be appropriate on a board with a "No politics, no religion" rule.

Let me be 100% clear - it isn't.

Please, folks, this thread was about Magic the Gathering settings. It is not about real-world governance, or abortion. Please apply rather more consideration before posting.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The rest of your argument is sound, but this is a terrible argument. "Legitimacy" is as valid as any number of other abstract concepts. Like any abstract concept, it is vulnerable to abuse, and is abused in the manner you describe, but it has a real and relevant meaning, that of "conforming to the law or rules"

Which the government creates. Ergo any government is legitimate because it says it is legitimate.

And anyone who doesn't like the government will say the laws are illegitimate because the government is illegitimate.

Ergo the concept of "legitimacy" is meaningless and unhelpful.

A "government" that is set up in defiance of existing law and rules of a given nation will likely have an extremely hard time convincing people to follow laws

Which gives you three options:

1) The status quo laws are widely perceived by "the people" as unjust (see French and Russian revolutions, American War of Independence.).

2) Persuasion. Most of "the people" are not lawyers, and can be easily persuaded as to what is and is not legal, especially when the laws are unclear in the first place. See the 2019 proroguing of parliament in the UK.

3) Brute force.

 

[Charlaquin]

Never mind, wrote this before I saw the mod warning.

 

[gyor]

Back on topic I still say the outstanding issue is reconciling the D&D cosmology with the MtG cosmology.

The default assumption rules of the PHB, MM, and DMG and most other rule books are that I am playing in the default D&D multiverse.

If I'm playing a Satyr in Theros, which are fey and someone casts banishment on me, I find that I am in the feywild of Theros! How will that work in practice.

If my goblin on Ravnica casts Etherealness, they go the Ethereal Plane, which means Ravnica has an Ethereal Plane! Same with Astral Projection meaning their is an Astral Plane. And Planeshift cast on others breaks a fundlemental rule of MtG that has only a few exceptions, that only Planeswalkers with a spark can shift between Planes.

See this isn't a problem for traditional settings, even Eberron resolved this issue. And it's not an issue for Exandia which was build in a sense with this cosmology in mind.

But MtG settings like Theros and Ravnica were designed with the MtG Blind Eterinities cosmology in mind.

Can someone on Toril cast planeshift to the Blind Eternities with the rest fork?

They can't ignore this forever at some point MtG will have to put a ring on it, and commit to a mutual cosmology with D&D.

 

[Parmandur]

Back on topic I still say the outstanding issue is reconciling the D&D cosmology with the MtG cosmology.

The default assumption rules of the PHB, MM, and DMG and most other rule books are that I am playing in the default D&D multiverse.

If I'm playing a Satyr in Theros, which are fey and someone casts banishment on me, I find that I am in the feywild of Theros! How will that work in practice.

If my goblin on Ravnica casts Etherealness, they go the Ethereal Plane, which means Ravnica has an Ethereal Plane! Same with Astral Projection meaning their is an Astral Plane. And Planeshift cast on others breaks a fundlemental rule of MtG that has only a few exceptions, that only Planeswalkers with a spark can shift between Planes.

See this isn't a problem for traditional settings, even Eberron resolved this issue. And it's not an issue for Exandia which was build in a sense with this cosmology in mind.

But MtG settings like Theros and Ravnica were designed with the MtG Blind Eterinities cosmology in mind.

Can someone on Toril cast planeshift to the Blind Eternities with the rest fork?

They can't ignore this forever at some point MtG will have to put a ring on it, and commit to a mutual cosmology with D&D.

I mean, not really: they can continue to hedge cosmology basically forever.

 

[robus]

They can't ignore this forever at some point MtG will have to put a ring on it, and commit to a mutual cosmology with D&D.

I think, by publishing setting books, they’ve done that. But I also think the bits of M:tG you won’t see in a setting book are the Eldrazi and Planeswalkers. Those (and the card game mechanics) are the unique bits to M:tG, the rest is just fluff that‘s ripe for refluffing

 

[Tonguez]

Back on topic I still say the outstanding issue is reconciling the D&D cosmology with the MtG cosmology.

The default assumption rules of the PHB, MM, and DMG and most other rule books are that I am playing in the default D&D multiverse.

If I'm playing a Satyr in Theros, which are fey and someone casts banishment on me, I find that I am in the feywild of Theros! How will that work in practice.

If my goblin on Ravnica casts Etherealness, they go the Ethereal Plane, which means Ravnica has an Ethereal Plane! Same with Astral Projection meaning their is an Astral Plane. And Planeshift cast on others breaks a fundlemental rule of MtG that has only a few exceptions, that only Planeswalkers with a spark can shift between Planes.

See this isn't a problem for traditional settings, even Eberron resolved this issue. And it's not an issue for Exandia which was build in a sense with this cosmology in mind.

But MtG settings like Theros and Ravnica were designed with the MtG Blind Eterinities cosmology in mind.

Can someone on Toril cast planeshift to the Blind Eternities with the rest fork?

They can't ignore this forever at some point MtG will have to put a ring on it, and commit to a mutual cosmology with D&D.

Option 1: The Shard of the Twelve Worlds wherein Dominaria formed a nexus with 12 other Planes that were locked off from the rest of the Multiverse. Perhaps Faerun is in a similar Shard to its Planes but locked off from the others.
That works particularly well as Feyworld and Shadowfells are echoes of the Material Plane (nexus) and in the same Shard.
Planeshift would only work to planes in the same Shard.

Option 2: The MTG planes are Demiplanes part of but locked out of the other Planes. So a Satyr does get shifted to the Feywild of Theros but thats a distinct demiplane in the vast Feywild. (Equally Innistrad and Ravenloft might both be Demiplanes in the Shadowfell and Innistrad also has its own Hell ‘echo’ thats distinct from the Abyss)

Option 3:Ravinica etc are Planes in the great Wheel, they are just more remote than the better known ones and as yet unexplored.

Option 4: Anything really

 

[gyor]

I mean, not really: they can continue to hedge cosmology basically forever.

No because it's going to increasing create lore and mechanics problems. Ignored problems just fester.

 

[gyor]

I think, by publishing setting books, they’ve done that. But I also think the bits of M:tG you won’t see in a setting book are the Eldrazi and Planeswalkers. Those (and the card game mechanics) are the unique bits to M:tG, the rest is just fluff that‘s ripe for refluffing

Except without Planeswalkers and Eldrazi the history of these planes have huge gapping holes and don't make sense. Plus it would functional mean there are two seperate Ravnicas, two Theros', two Zendikars, two Amonkets, ect... an MtG one and a D&D one with seperate but wierdly similar histories. One with planeswalkers and Eldrazi and one without, with something taking it's place.

 

[Parmandur]

No because it's going to increasing create lore and mechanics problems. Ignored problems just fester.

Vaguery allows for individual solutions at tables: beyond the suggestions in that old Ravnica video by Crawford, I wouldn't expect anything final and "canonical." Canon isn't the name of the game anymore.