D&D General Some comic makers would kill for D&Ds numbers and demographic.

[hawkeyefan]

Way, way, WAY more.



I agree with you in that I think comics should be cheaper than they are (a lot of that is because they're owned by large, greedy corporations), but you're making one mistake in your reckoning: You are only looking at how long comics take to be consumed compared to other forms of entertainment - you're missing that they take longer to MAKE. Very few comic artists can produce a single page in less than 12 hours worth of work. Barring writer's block (which can happen at the writing stage of a comic too), a novel takes less work to produce. (I know, tell that to George RR Martin, right?)

Yeah, that is absolutely one of the factors that comes into play. The cost to produce and the time it takes. I was definitely looking at things from the consumer side.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I don't think he's comparing the model, just the overall numbers. There is an audience being reached by RPGs that is not being reached by comics. Are there things that writers can do to tap into that audience?

He's saying that he, as a comic writer, is very successful (between his work for Marvel, DC and IDW) but is finding more success in D&D writing.

He didn't really say that... he said that he was talking to his comic writer contacts, telling them to tap into the TRPG customers.

Which to me, didn't really make much sense, unless he's saying DC/Marvel should make a TTRPG. Which is not really how I read it. I read it more like the comics should put out more comics related to D&D, which I think is unrelated to comic's success.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

It's less than $6 a month. When the typical monthly comic costs $4, I would not describe a subscription service that gets you access to thousands of comics for 50% more than the cost of one single comic to be a barrier.

The digital angle is also not a barrier to most new readers. It's simply the way they read or watch anything.

$6 a month is a lot for some people, especially to a person who hasn't read many comic books.

If I want to introduce someone to comics, I say, "Hey, you should check out Batman: The Long Halloween," or "You should really read All-Star Superman, it's great!" That's a path that is far more likely to get someone to pick up a comic book, as opposed to saying "Sign up for a subscription service where there is nearly an unlimited range of choices."

There's such a thing as too much choice, and for a new reader, you want an easy jump-on point. You don't want to overwhelm someone so they give up before they begin.

 

[Parmandur]

He didn't really say that... he said that he was talking to his comic writer contacts, telling them to tap into the TRPG customers.

Which to me, didn't really make much sense, unless he's saying DC/Marvel should make a TTRPG. Which is not really how I read it. I read it more like the comics should put out more comics related to D&D, which I think is unrelated to comic's success.

He was talking about telling other individual writers to get into TTRPGs, rather than comics.

 

[hawkeyefan]

$6 a month is a lot for some people, especially to a person who hasn't read many comic books.

If I want to introduce someone to comics, I say, "Hey, you should check out Batman: The Long Halloween," or "You should really read All-Star Superman, it's great!" That's a path that is far more likely to get someone to pick up a comic book, as opposed to saying "Sign up for a subscription service where there is nearly an unlimited range of choices."

There's such a thing as too much choice, and for a new reader, you want an easy jump-on point. You don't want to overwhelm someone so they give up before they begin.

Yeah, I agree with you a specific comic or trade paperback is a better intro to the artform overall. I don’t think that the point about services like Marvel Unlimited or Comixology was that they are the best way to hook people.

They’re a good way for people who may be interested to get a ton of content, including seminal storylines, for the cost of less than 2 brand new comics a month.

So in that way, it is far from a barrier.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

He was talking about telling other individual writers to get into TTRPGs, rather than comics.

Ah ok that makes more sense.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Yeah, I agree with you a specific comic or trade paperback is a better intro to the artform overall. I don’t think that the point about services like Marvel Unlimited or Comixology was that they are the best way to hook people.

They’re a good way for people who may be interested to get a ton of content, including seminal storylines, for the cost of less than 2 brand new comics a month.

So in that way, it is far from a barrier.

For sure, I agree with that. I was arguing that a $6/month subscription is a barrier for new readers, which is key to comics surviving if they don't want their current customer base to keep dwindling as people age out of it.

I think it's a really hard thing to do, but I think the best path forward is annual self-contained stories tied to each character, as opposed to the long-running continual plot that no one can entirely follow unless they've bought every issue in the past 3 years.

 

[hawkeyefan]

For sure, I agree with that. I was arguing that a $6/month subscription is a barrier for new readers, which is key to comics surviving if they don't want their current customer base to keep dwindling as people age out of it.

I think it's a really hard thing to do, but I think the best path forward is annual self-contained stories tied to each character, as opposed to the long-running continual plot that no one can entirely follow unless they've bought every issue in the past 3 years.

I think the solution, if such a thing exists, will be a combination of things. More original graphic novels as you suggest are a piece of that, and I think we’re seeing that begin. Or were. Digital is also a huge part...it has to be. The problem so far is how to balance the cost of digital versus print. Other shifts in format are likely in order, too...web comics and the like.

There already were a lot of factors involved in how the industry would grow or sustain....the pandemic just complicates all of it.

 

[Zardnaar]

Problem with subscription services is the quantity of them.

They are all $6 to $10 or whatever. Looks cheap but then you realize for the same price you can get another one that offers better value for money.

Superheroes and most comics don't interest me at all but I have several hundred Dark Horse Star Wars comics.

Not in the prime market but it needs to be cheaper than $6 which is comparable to a DLC subscription from a games company. More fun, less effort.

I suppose niche stuff can get away with a higher price point if they have enough hardcore fans willing to pay it.

I've you're offering print digital material I'm not gonna pay the same amount as digital.

It's fun vs effort vs time.

 

[happyhermit]

Oh, wow, Zub drops this nugget about the hardcovers selling millions of copies, and he is in a position of some knowledge:
...

It's starting to make me a little batty that nobody has put out real numbers by now. I had access to Bookscan (someone else's account) and explicitly promised not to share any info. It doesn't capture all sales by any means, especially for rpgs books, but it's solid stats to go with "rankings". I figured surely someone would have done a story or something that cited it by now. The only thing people bother to report about a D&D book is when a book hits the bestseller list, but that just shows numbers in the 10's of thousands then it drops off the list. It's cool to see that through mainstream channels Xanathar's sold almost 60000 copies in a few weeks, but that's really just a tiny part of the story.