Agreed, although I'd also want Erin M Evans, Paul S. Kemp, Troy Denning, Brian James, and some others back as well.
D&D General Some comic makers would kill for D&Ds numbers and demographic.
- Thread starter darjr
- Start date
Agreed, although I'd also want Erin M Evans, Paul S. Kemp, Troy Denning, Brian James, and some others back as well.
LordEntrails
Hero
I've tried to get into comics a few times over the years.
The comic industry is not newbie friendly, as has been mentioned. Each time I've asked various store owners for advice as to where to start. And even though I've started at issue #1 of whatever, there are things that I'm assumed to know. Some are story line, some are medium conventions.
And then as has been mentioned, it's not particularly cost effective. If you take the cost and time mentioned before, $4 for 15 minutes adds up. Especially if I'd like to sit down for an hour or two and get involved.
There are many things competing with my time (and money), for me, comics has repeatedly (over 3 decades or so) done a poor job of getting me as a fan and customer.
If they want to grow their market, they have to keep their fans and grow new ones. Look at 5E, it wasn't designed for the hard core fans, it was designed for the casual person. Their will always be niche hard-core deep story, thousand issue running plots for those that want them (if their are enough of them). But if they want to grow, and not just maintain their customer base, they need to make their product accessible to the masses.
The comic industry is not newbie friendly, as has been mentioned. Each time I've asked various store owners for advice as to where to start. And even though I've started at issue #1 of whatever, there are things that I'm assumed to know. Some are story line, some are medium conventions.
And then as has been mentioned, it's not particularly cost effective. If you take the cost and time mentioned before, $4 for 15 minutes adds up. Especially if I'd like to sit down for an hour or two and get involved.
There are many things competing with my time (and money), for me, comics has repeatedly (over 3 decades or so) done a poor job of getting me as a fan and customer.
If they want to grow their market, they have to keep their fans and grow new ones. Look at 5E, it wasn't designed for the hard core fans, it was designed for the casual person. Their will always be niche hard-core deep story, thousand issue running plots for those that want them (if their are enough of them). But if they want to grow, and not just maintain their customer base, they need to make their product accessible to the masses.
hawkeyefan
Legend
Sometimes the content can indeed be an obstacle. Where to start is a question that often comes up. But, almost all of the longstanding comics that may pose such an obstacle aren’t exactly challenging to pick up. I mean....Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Iron Man....we know their origins and the basics. You can safely jump in and you’ll be fine. I mean....I’ve watched the poor Waynes die about a hundred times at this point.
More complex comics typically have a very clear start and end (if they’re not still ongoing). Something like Sandman or Saga or Walking Dead have very clear beginnings and most folks would point you in the right direction.
So in this case, I think that for the most part, this is more of a perceived obstacle than an actual obstacle. Unfortunately, many comic fans are completionists of some sort, so when a new reader asks where to begin, most don’t say “the most recent issue” or “the most recent storyline, which you can find here” but instead start listing whatever they think is essential reading or high quality creative runs on a book or character.
I wish more people would just say “the most recent issue” when asked where someone should start.
More complex comics typically have a very clear start and end (if they’re not still ongoing). Something like Sandman or Saga or Walking Dead have very clear beginnings and most folks would point you in the right direction.
So in this case, I think that for the most part, this is more of a perceived obstacle than an actual obstacle. Unfortunately, many comic fans are completionists of some sort, so when a new reader asks where to begin, most don’t say “the most recent issue” or “the most recent storyline, which you can find here” but instead start listing whatever they think is essential reading or high quality creative runs on a book or character.
I wish more people would just say “the most recent issue” when asked where someone should start.
Urriak Uruk
Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
Yeah I was confused by that comparison too... like I doubt Jim Zub's comic sell in the millions (actually I don't just doubt, I know they don't) so the comparison (and his advice) didn't make a lot of sense.
Frankly I don't think comic sales declining has much to do with the writing, or the marketing, or the treatment of fans at all... it's just that less and less people are interested in buying a small issue for $4, and waiting for a drip-drip-drip of new issues every month or so.
I'm someone who does buy a paperback of 5 collected issues, and likes them, but their biggest problem is that there is no clear "jumping on" point for people to just pick on up and read.
If they really wanted to replicated D&D books publishing success, they would stop publishing single issues and instead release more of a graphic novel for a character every year. This actually wouldn't be hard; each character, say Batman, gets their book in January, then the Flash in February, the Justice League in March, and so-on for the year until we are back for the next Batman book in January.
That way the writer/illustrator of Batman has the entire year to write a story, no single issues, that is contained and not as episodic, or as reliant on the previous issue. It also gives the publisher way more time to market a whole story as opposed to a single issue, and the fans of a particular character can save their money to pick up the Batman book every year. You can even sell limited edition hard covers for collecters.
My two-cents.
MichaelSomething
Legend
Shouldn't comics be looking towards Manga for advice? Since they're also a picture based book form?
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
OVERALL North American Dollar Sales for Diamond's Comics,
Graphic Novels, and Magazines for the 2019 year was around $529.66 Million
(up 2.54% year-over-year).
Diamond sold 83.16 million units of all properties of which the Top 300 Comics consisted of 70.93 million.
Marvel had 44.72% of the Market (per Unit) and DC 30.74%
Graphic Novels, and Magazines for the 2019 year was around $529.66 Million
(up 2.54% year-over-year).
Diamond sold 83.16 million units of all properties of which the Top 300 Comics consisted of 70.93 million.
Marvel had 44.72% of the Market (per Unit) and DC 30.74%
Comichron: 2019 Comic Book Sales to Comics Shops
Estimated comic book and graphic novel sales to North American comic shops
www.comichron.com
LuisCarlos17f
Legend
Today there are good times for the graphic novel industry, and for the superheroes franchises, but not for the superheroes comics. And now little children would rather watching videos with an electronic tablet, even when they are too small to talk or to walk.
Today children don't start to buy comics, and when they are teenages would rather videogames. I would bet most of little girls know DC superheroines thanks the web animated cartoons and the Mattel dolls.
This is curious but D&D has survived Warcraft, the MMO haven't killed the Tabletop RPGs. Even some videogames have been adapted to board games with miniatures.
D&D will be more popular with the right action-live movie. You have to remember Transformers was a forgotten franchise until Michael Bay started a new golden age for the franchise.
In the last years it has been only Forgotten Realm comics, not about other lines. Did IDW Publishing make enough money with the miniserie of Dark Sun?
* Almost off-topic, but I would like to say I like the idea of WotC publishing a new D&D world based in a fantasy version of a Marvel-DC multiverse secret crisis event, with a pathchorld world mixing the Battleworld of the last marvel secret war and the Theros from the DC Convergence Event, but with nerfed version of characters where Daredevil can face Superman-Bizarro or Doomday without worrying about broken power balance.
Today children don't start to buy comics, and when they are teenages would rather videogames. I would bet most of little girls know DC superheroines thanks the web animated cartoons and the Mattel dolls.
This is curious but D&D has survived Warcraft, the MMO haven't killed the Tabletop RPGs. Even some videogames have been adapted to board games with miniatures.
D&D will be more popular with the right action-live movie. You have to remember Transformers was a forgotten franchise until Michael Bay started a new golden age for the franchise.
In the last years it has been only Forgotten Realm comics, not about other lines. Did IDW Publishing make enough money with the miniserie of Dark Sun?
* Almost off-topic, but I would like to say I like the idea of WotC publishing a new D&D world based in a fantasy version of a Marvel-DC multiverse secret crisis event, with a pathchorld world mixing the Battleworld of the last marvel secret war and the Theros from the DC Convergence Event, but with nerfed version of characters where Daredevil can face Superman-Bizarro or Doomday without worrying about broken power balance.
Parmandur
Book-Friend, he/him
I think that's exactly his point: as a successful comics writer, his D&D Young Adventurer Guides are handily outselling his successful comics, and probably all the comics.
Two words: Marvel Unlimited. If digital delivery is good for you, rather than paper, Marvel Unlimited gives you access to a GIGANTIC back catalog of titles. $70 a year - so less than the cost of 20 current issues.
It does not give you a clear jumping on point, but it solves the affordability issue - and if you are confused by mention of past continuity... you can go and read it at no additional cost!
Urriak Uruk
Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
I still don't get why he's comparing it to comics, they are very different in their release schedule and pricing.
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