Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[Chaosmancer]

Why would you need to? In 5e the combat styles are Archery, Defense, Dueling, Great Weapon Fighting, Protection and Two-Weapon Fighting. That's it.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Please, tell me you are joking right?

Remember all that stuff about applying logic to the world? That means that every aspect of real world weapon fighting should apply to weapon fighting in DnD. "Great Weapon Fighting" covers easily 13 different types of styles, let alone all the variances within those types. After all, the Japanese Naginata and the French Halberd both had about a dozen different styles and techniques.

And remember, this is a world with non-humans. All of the styles we have involve the human form and musculature, so there are even more styles for each race.

Trying to limit that to only a single "martial art" would be like saying there is only one species of tree in the entire world.

 

[Maxperson]

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Please, tell me you are joking right?

Page 72 of the PHB. Are you denying that RAW has those as the fighting styles?

Remember all that stuff about applying logic to the world? That means that every aspect of real world weapon fighting should apply to weapon fighting in DnD. "Great Weapon Fighting" covers easily 13 different types of styles, let alone all the variances within those types. After all, the Japanese Naginata and the French Halberd both had about a dozen different styles and techniques.

Great weapon fighting covers 11 weapons and the Naginata is not one of them. I suppose the DM could bring that in as a home brew weapon, in which case it would fall under the one style of Great Weapon Fighting.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Listen folks, either you could continue on this quest to convince someone that martial arts take skill and years of mastery, or you can try to break down a brick wall with your face.

Either one would take the same amount of effort, and result in the same thing.

 

[Maxperson]

Listen folks, either you could continue on this quest to convince someone that martial arts take skill and years of mastery, or you can try to break down a brick wall with your face.

I know how long they take in the real world. However, 1) D&D is not the real world. While you can apply logic and common sense to the game, you cannot expect it to mirror reality. 2) Monks, not Fighters learn martial arts. And yes, I know that technically weapon fighting is a martial art, but that's not how @Chaosmancer was using the term when he posted his ridiculous list, and 3) the game says basic ability, not mastery.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

I know how long they take in the real world. However, 1) D&D is not the real world. While you can apply logic and common sense to the game, you cannot expect it to mirror reality. 2) Monks, not Fighters learn martial arts. And yes, I know that technically weapon fighting is a martial art, but that's not how @Chaosmancer was using the term when he posted his ridiculous list.

says the person who vehemently says that there must be "limiters" in the world for, logically, everyone in the world to not be spellcasters.

Look, if you're only gonna listen to and give yourself the benefit of the doubt, just say so, it makes everything a helluva lot easier, for everyone.

 

[Maxperson]

says the person who vehemently says that there must be "limiters" in the world for, logically, everyone in the world to not be spellcasters.

That's a pretty blatant Strawman there. I never said everyone. I said common like Eberron.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

That doesn't take years to learn. It's not all that hard to become a fighter, which is why Timmy on the Farm can pick up a pitchfork after his family is killed by orcs and go be a fighter really easily.

By this logic why doesn't every adventurer pick up a level of fighter before adventuring? If it just takes a few weeks to go from farmer to fighter when Timmy's family is killed wouldn't every town take a week or two to train every adult BEFORE the goblins attack (what else is there to do overwinter?) and every town be like Sparta?

This logic goes double for every race that lives hundreds of years. If all it takes is a clue week course to be fully trained in combat why isn't every single elf a fighter?

 

[Maxperson]

By this logic why doesn't every adventurer pick up a level of fighter before adventuring? If it just takes a few weeks to go from farmer to fighter when Timmy's family is killed wouldn't every town take a week or two to train every adult BEFORE the goblins attack (what else is there to do overwinter?) and every town be like Sparta?

Multi-classing limitations? No multi-classing allowed by that DM? Not enough experience? Other reasons.

This logic goes double for every race that lives hundreds of years. If all it takes is a clue week course to be fully trained in combat why isn't every single elf a fighter?

Lack of desire? Lack of any of the above? Other reasons.

If every adventurer and every elf meet the stat requirements and exist in a game where the DM allows multiclassing, they can all easily get a fighter level with just a few hundred exp in a day or two.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Page 72 of the PHB. Are you denying that RAW has those as the fighting styles?

I said no such thing, I'm saying that each of those styles represents far more than a single style.

Great weapon fighting covers 11 weapons and the Naginata is not one of them. I suppose the DM could bring that in as a home brew weapon, in which case it would fall under the one style of Great Weapon Fighting.

Check the monk section, under martial arts. Note how they say that other weapons (such as the kama) would use stats of weapons that are on the chart, in the case of the kama, the sickle.

So, no homebrew needed.

I know how long they take in the real world. However, 1) D&D is not the real world. While you can apply logic and common sense to the game, you cannot expect it to mirror reality. 2) Monks, not Fighters learn martial arts. And yes, I know that technically weapon fighting is a martial art, but that's not how @Chaosmancer was using the term when he posted his ridiculous list, and 3) the game says basic ability, not mastery.

1) Logic and common sense are being applied, different styles apply to different weapons, over time and over geography, because people develop different techniques. To deal with different weapons, different armors, different opponents. The style of swordsmanship in Waterdeep where the nobles duel as gentleman is different than the style of the Silver Marches where they fight lizardmen in the swamps.

2) I know how I am using the term. Martial Arts is not limited to hand to hand combat. Every weapon style is a martial art. Martial meaning "appropriate for war".

2a) If you had looked at the list in detail, you would notice that every single one was regarding weapon use, not hand to hand combat while unarmed.

3) I never claimed mastery. Basic ability in a few hundred or thousand styles is more impressive than mastering a single style.


But, it is clear from your responses you don't care about what we say. You have decided you are correct after all

Multi-classing limitations? No multi-classing allowed by that DM? Not enough experience? Other reasons.

Lack of desire? Lack of any of the above? Other reasons.

Knowing how to wear armor and wield weapons in a world where monster attacks are common threats to your life is something that people won't pursue do to a lack of desire. But magic that can make their lives easier is something that everyone desires.

 

[Maxperson]

I said no such thing, I'm saying that each of those styles represents far more than a single style.

Only if you want it to. The level of realism in your campaign is up to you. You can require fighters to train in every combat style traveling to the far east and other countries to learn their styles, so that by the time they are ready to die of old age, they can become a fighter.

Or you can just go with the styles listed.

Check the monk section, under martial arts. Note how they say that other weapons (such as the kama) would use stats of weapons that are on the chart, in the case of the kama, the sickle.

So, no homebrew needed.

I did. It gives advice on home reskinning weapons. A reskinned weapon would use the same style as the base weapon. If you are going to give it a new style, that's a home brew. The suggestion on how to reskin is below.

"For example, you might use a club that is two lengths of wood connected by a short chain (called a nunchaku) or a sickle with a shorter, straighter blade (called a kama). Whatever name you use for a monk weapon, you can use the game statistics provided for the weapon in chapter 5."