D&D 5E What do you want in a Dark Sun book (sans psionics)?

[Parmandur]

Obviously I haven't seen Theros yet, but I hope you're right, and it's a strongly-worded limitation (which obviously any individual DM can rule 0), because the "limitation" @Urriak Uruk quoted from Ravnica is not a limitation at all, but rather a mildly-worded suggestion that some races might be more or less suitable (and doesn't appear to limit classes/subclasses at all).

As people are saying, Dark Sun needs something vastly more severe, something that clearly lays out that by default, no non-Athasian races should be present, no normal Cleric subclasses should be present, certain spells should be absent, and so on. As I said, in a later DM-oriented chapter they can have a paragraph on flexing this, but the entire setting should be designed on the basis that it holds true.



100% agree. They're mantis-beings, not humans with bug-ish features and maybe extra arms. That DiTerlizzi one is really good. They need to have an abdomen and a totally non-human physique. A lot of the more recent stuff for them just makes them look like 4-armed, vaguely insect-headed humanoids who have a humanoid torso (rather than a thorax and abdomen separately like an insect), and don't even have a real exoskeleton, just bony plates on top of relatively normal flesh.

Given Theros is adding Centaurs, who are far more extreme, this surely cannot be a real problem to do either.

The difference between that level of restrictions and what's in Ravnica is of degree, rather than kind. EotC has shown that restrictions for a Setting are a thing that they will do.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The difference between that level of restrictions and what's in Ravnica is of degree, rather than kind. EotC has shown that restrictions for a Setting are a thing that they will do.

Yeah, I get that's your view, but to me, there is difference of kind, between "polite suggestion that maybe some races etc. will be pretty uncommon here" and "clear statement that, by default, all normal races are absent from this setting, and only Athasian races are present". I mean, maybe you just see that as degree, but I don't so I guess...

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah, I get that's your view, but to me, there is difference of kind, between "polite suggestion that maybe some races etc. will be pretty uncommon here" and "clear statement that, by default, all normal races are absent from this setting, and only Athasian races are present". I mean, maybe you just see that as degree, but I don't so I guess...

Crossing the barrier into default restrictions is very significant. And honestly, they can't stop a DM from adding Gnomes or Paladins to Athas at home, so they can't be too hamfisted with stating the assumption, as long as the assumption is made clear.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Crossing the barrier into default restrictions is very significant. And honestly, they can't stop a DM from adding Gnomes or Paladins to Athas at home, so they can't be too hamfisted with stating the assumption, as long as the assumption is made clear.

No, y'see, someone playing a gnome paladin in Dark Sun is how the universe gets destabilized and reality as we know it gets irrevocably changed for the worse.

 

[toucanbuzz]

But I think even 2e Thrikreen were medium creatures or do I remember wrong?
It made a big difference with many 2e weapons dealing more damage to large creatures (some did less though). I think 2e Half giants did get double hit dice to compensate for that even, but I am quite sure 2e Thrikreen did not.

Short Answer: Dark Sun AD&D thri-kreen were large but only half-giants got double hit points.

Per page 18 of the Dark Sun boxed set, thri-kreen height averaged 7 feet, and they were 4 feet longer than tall, making them 11 feet long. They also weighed around double a typical human. This put them into a large size category, which was also reflected in the AD&D 2E Monster Manual wherein they were listed as 11' long ("large").

However, the thri-kreen first created in 1982, at least in the conceptual art, looked a lot more like thri-kreen from more current editions.

 

[Ath'kethin]

But I think even 2e Thrikreen were medium creatures or do I remember wrong?
It made a big difference with many 2e weapons dealing more damage to large creatures (some did less though). I think 2e Half giants did get double hit dice to compensate for that even, but I am quite sure 2e Thrikreen did not.

In 2e thri-kreen were Large (11' end to end, standing about 7' tall). No extra hit dice, but they gained leaping and a poison bite as they went up in levels.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Crossing the barrier into default restrictions is very significant. And honestly, they can't stop a DM from adding Gnomes or Paladins to Athas at home, so they can't be too hamfisted with stating the assumption, as long as the assumption is made clear.

As I said though, the extension needs to extend into the world-design. Ravnica is designed in such a way that putting in non-standard races will not even scratch the setting.

Dark Sun, on the other hand, is not designed like that. To change it so it was would be a very significant change. So long as they design it on the basis that Athasian races are the only ones that exist, I suppose I don't mind exactly what the verbiage is.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Ravnica is different, because it's a "cosmopolitan" city. You can find lot of people from other countries or continents. If I want, in my setting there are planar gates between Sigil and Ravnica.

 

[Eltab]

I have the Dune Trader supplement. They bolted 'Trader' onto Rogue / Thief.
The class would be more of a no-magic Bard - needs CHR, doesn't want to get into fights alone, biggest talent is a non-combat thing.
Personally, I think Dune Trader would be better as a background that gives you a Gift of Gab power to talk, negotiate, distract other people, and Training in Persuasion or Deception which you can switch back and forth during a Rest.

 

[Hoffmand]

No, y'see, someone playing a gnome paladin in Dark Sun is how the universe gets destabilized and reality as we know it gets irrevocably changed for the worse.

Paladin does not mean what it meant in 2E. Vengeance and oath breaker are possible. There may be some new one specific to the setting that could be created. But i agree the 2E concept does not work.