D&D 5E 4-Element monks are the only monk archetype that excels against flying enemies

[Asisreo]

Exactly. You just ensure your encounters feature flying creatures or creatures with ranged attacks at reasonable frequency. Or you set them in dungeons. Occasionally you let your PCs rain death from the sky and feel good about themselves.

In games I run most PCs are flying from late T2. In my last AoW campaign, the Warlock was riding around on a Broom of flying, the Cleric had boots of flying, the Druid had an elemental banner that let him fly (and they could all cast or assume flying forms anyway via wild shape, polymorph, air walk or the fly spell), the Bard would cast Fly, and the Swashbuckler had Lightning and Thunder, paired swords that let him fly 1/ short rest.

And that was at around halfway through T2, approaching T3.

It broke nothing. Beats me why people are scared of it.

Flying, in and of itself, isn't much of an issue. Flight on a monk, well, it's not broken but obviously it's a strong combo. Remember, if a non-flying enemy wants to engage a monk, they must use ranged attacks. If they do, the monk can deflect their missiles.

A spellcaster is just a bad match-up against a monk for obvious stunning strike reasons and if a monk can match and exceed a mage's fly speed, it's downhill from there.

A high AC frontliner with high dexterity and strength would be the best counter to a monk, but now the monk doesn't have to stay in their reach to attack (fire snakes).

 

[Flamestrike]

Flying, in and of itself, isn't much of an issue. Flight on a monk, well, it's not broken but obviously it's a strong combo. Remember, if a non-flying enemy wants to engage a monk, they must use ranged attacks. If they do, the monk can deflect their missiles.

I disagree. If a monk wants to fly and shoot me from range, I call that a win more often than not. I'd rather that than him stunning fisting me.

It's no different to a monk who wants to hang back and shoot me. Hes much more effective in melee.

And who cares? Like I've said repeatedly flying isn't a big deal. I only look to get flight on a PC like a monk, barbarian or Paladin to ensure I can get into melee with other flyers, not to kite non flyers from the sky with subpar ranged attacks.

 

[Mecheon]

Flying, in and of itself, isn't much of an issue. Flight on a monk, well, it's not broken but obviously it's a strong combo. Remember, if a non-flying enemy wants to engage a monk, they must use ranged attacks. If they do, the monk can deflect their missiles.

They can only do that once a turn. Pepper 'em with shots. If only one enemy has ranged weapons, well, there's your problem.

 

[Asisreo]

I disagree. If a monk wants to fly and shoot me from range, I call that a win more often than not. I'd rather that than him stunning fisting me.

It's no different to a monk who wants to hang back and shoot me. Hes much more effective in melee.

And who cares? Like I've said repeatedly flying isn't a big deal. I only look to get flight on a PC like a monk, barbarian or Paladin to ensure I can get into melee with other flyers, not to kite non flyers from the sky with subpar ranged attacks.

No, no. The monk is hitting you with melee attacks, they're just denying your own melee options as well. They get to stunning strike you and take an AO and whatever weaker ranged options you have. And if they don't like how strong your AO is, they can BA disengage.

 

[Asisreo]

They can only do that once a turn. Pepper 'em with shots. If only one enemy has ranged weapons, well, there's your problem.

They can do it once per turn but one time is already pretty strong, especially since he can turn the damage around to you. And most enemies have ranged capabilities but excel more in a melee.

Ranged enemies almost always have a way to hit you but melee enemies must get within your reach.

 

[Mecheon]

No, no. The monk is hitting you with melee attacks, they're just denying your own melee options as well. They get to stunning strike you and take an AO and whatever weaker ranged options you have. And if they don't like how strong your AO is, they can BA disengage.

And then we get the actual problems with the Four Elements monk, its limited resources. To pull of this combo of "Fly into the enemy backline and stunning strike", you've just burnt up 5 ki points. Lowest level you can pull this off is 11, at which point you've used just under half of your daily resources for that stunt.

If a wizard burns just under half of their spells in a single round of combat, or a fighter does the same then yes, that seems powerful at the time, but they're aching the moment the next combat starts

 

[Asisreo]

And then we get the actual problems with the Four Elements monk, its limited resources. To pull of this combo of "Fly into the enemy backline and stunning strike", you've just burnt up 5 ki points. Lowest level you can pull this off is 11, at which point you've used just under half of your daily resources for that stunt.

If a wizard burns just under half of their spells in a single round of combat, or a fighter does the same then yes, that seems powerful at the time, but they're aching the moment the next combat starts

But it's not a daily resource. It's a short rest resource. Which means you can just short rest at some point and regain the Ki. Even if it's a whole adventuring day, you're assumed to have 2 short rests. That's triple the table's Ki points.

 

[Guest 6801328]

If flying boots is trivialising your encounters, you need to work on your encounter design.

Uh...no?

Would a lightsaber (or a bazooka, or...pick your weapon) trivialize your encounters? If so, do you need to work on your encounter design? Probably not, because (wait for it...) you know the players won’t have lightsabers and bazookas.

Amirite?

 

[Mecheon]

But it's not a daily resource. It's a short rest resource. Which means you can just short rest at some point and regain the Ki. Even if it's a whole adventuring day, you're assumed to have 2 short rests. That's triple the table's Ki points.

Still a large expenditure of resources. You bank on there being a chance to have a short rest before the next battle, but what if there isn't? What if the rest of your party are concerned with a time limit and do not give you the opportunity to do so?

Uh...no?

Would a lightsaber (or a bazooka, or...pick your weapon) trivialize your encounters? If so, do you need to work on your encounter design? Probably not, because (wait for it...) you know the players won’t have lightsabers and bazookas.

Amirite?

Oh come off it Elfcrusher. Flying is not a game-winning absurdity that will break all fights. It is as simple to counter as "Your enemies possess some variety of ranged weapon". Or if you wanna be -really- spicy, give someone a bola or a net.

 

[Asisreo]

Still a large expenditure of resources. You bank on there being a chance to have a short rest before the next battle, but what if there isn't? What if the rest of your party are concerned with a time limit and do not give you the opportunity to do so?

Simple, you go along with the party as planned. After another encounter or two, the warlock will say "Maybe we should short rest now." And wizard says "yeah, could use the extra spellslots." And the fighter says "that's cool. I could use another second wind and action surge." And the barbarian goes "lol, I don't understand but I guess I can get extra hit dice." If they never take a short rest yet go through more than 3 encounters, the encounters weren't really taxing enough and the party would be fine regardless of the amount of Ki Points you expend.

Just remember, every Ki Point you don't expend before the next short rest is a wasted Ki Point that could've gone into an encounter.