D&D General Should Bearded Female Dwarves be the Default?

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

There is not universal term for species. No matter the definition and no matter how airtight it seems, like the fertile offspring rule, there's always exceptions that make the definition not work in certain circumstances.

There's a species of newt that has 7 subspecies. Each subspecies can breed with any other subspecies, producing fertile offspring of one of the parent's subspecies. There's an exception, though. There are 2 subspecies in this species of newt that cannot breed together, can't even produce infertile offspring. Both of these subspecies can breed with any other subspecies in this species of newt, but they cannot breed together. If one specimen from either subspecies breeds with another subspecies of newt that it can breed with, if its offspring is a member of the other parent's subspecies, it can breed with the subspecies its parent could normally not breed with.

This is an example of a species that doesn't follow standard species classification. Based on the "a species is any group of creatures that can breed and produce fertile offspring" definition, this newt should be one species, as they can almost all interbreed. Also according to this definition, the 2 subspecies that can't breed together are different species of newt. This definition doesn't work for these newts and is inherently flawed for other types of creatures.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

A Long-Busted Myth: It's Not True That Animals Belonging To Different Species Can Never Interbreed

Every time we learn that humans interbred with other species such as Neanderthals, the cry goes up that different species are supposed to be incapable of breeding. But this is not true

www.forbes.com

The whole premise that a species is a group of animals that can interbreed is false. Orcs and humans aren't the same species, no more than Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens were the same species (there is some controversy on the topic of neanderthals being a different species, but I believe they were.)

That's... not what the article says... it specifically points out that many species are separated by geography, because if two animals are on two different continents, they can't breed unless outside of nature. However, if those two continents collided and the two animals began intermingling with 100% breeding efficiency, they may be reclassified (see polar/grizzly bear thing I posted above).

In the case of orcs and humans, who generally do live in the same geography and often interbreed, they would likely be considered the same species by a geneticist.

I do agree with there are exceptions in every case and that this is not an exact science. Which is why we probably shouldn't say with 100% certainty they are the same species or not, because...

orcs and elves aren't real

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

(Sorry, bad example of article. I'll replace it with a better one.)
Grizzly and Polar bears are different species, and they can breed and produce fertile offspring. There's no perfect definition of species.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I do agree with there are exceptions in every case and that this is not an exact science. Which is why we probably shouldn't say with 100% certainty they are the same species or not, because...

orcs and elves aren't real

Yes. There's no perfect definition of species. Orcs and Humans are definitely different species in my opinion, and half orcs technically a different species as well. There are Mul, which are half-dwarves, half-humans, and Half-Orc, half-humans, but there's no lore that I know of that says Dwarves and Orcs can breed, and would be considered different species from each other, but somehow the same species as a human at the same time.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Yes. There's no perfect definition of species. Orcs and Humans are definitely different species in my opinion, and half orcs technically a different species as well. There are Mul, which are half-dwarves, half-humans, and Half-Orc, half-humans, but there's no lore that I know of that says Dwarves and Orcs can breed, and would be considered different species from each other, but somehow the same species as a human at the same time.

As you say, not an exact science. I do find the idea of ancestry completely unimportant in fantasy, as the humans of Greyhawk are created by a different god than the humans of Forgotten Realms, yet we wouldn't say they are different species. But maybe a geneticist would think so, because travel between these two worlds is relatively uncommon.

I personally think humans and orcs would just be different breeds, especially as if a half-orc mates with a human, their children are humans.

In the case of the Mul, they are actually infertile! Which points to Athasian dwarves (which have klingon-like foreheads) are very much a distinct species from humans. In the Forgotten Realms, human-dwarf mixes do exist, and although not common do not seem to be infertile, the Forgotten Realms dwarf may be the same species as human.

This is something we probably can't have a definitive answer for without actually having an actual experiment showing the fertility rates of each race mingling with the other (which I definitely do not want). Considering that half-elves and half-orcs are in the PHB I find their fertility rate likely high, while half-dwarves are not so are relatively low, meaning that perhaps elves/humans/orcs are the same species but that doesn't include the others.

I might make a thread detailing all of the interbreeds of races, because if you go deep into the editions there are a LOT.

 

[Charlaquin]

TIL humans and dragons are the same species, apparently.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

TIL humans and dragons are the same species, apparently.

Considering dragons mate with other non-dragons via magic and not their genetics being similar, probably not.

 

[Oofta]

Considering dragons mate with other non-dragons via magic and not their genetics being similar, probably not.

But according to the lore orcs are also magically fertile. Which means they can be a separate species as well.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

But according to the lore orcs are also magically fertile. Which means they can be a separate species as well.

Oh! I didn't know that. Then yes, that would be true as well.

 

[Parmandur]

Yes. There's no perfect definition of species. Orcs and Humans are definitely different species in my opinion, and half orcs technically a different species as well. There are Mul, which are half-dwarves, half-humans, and Half-Orc, half-humans, but there's no lore that I know of that says Dwarves and Orcs can breed, and would be considered different species from each other, but somehow the same species as a human at the same time.

The 5E Monster Manual actually does use a Dwarf-Orc hybrid as an example of a non-Human Half-Orc. Half-Orcs are half Orc, not Human-Orc hubrids. The Explorer's Guide to Wildemount also discusses Dwarf-Elf children, and Half-Elves of non-Human heritage I'm general.