D&D 5E WotC's Jeremy Crawford on D&D Races Going Forward

On Twitter, Jeremy Crawford discussed the treatment of orcs, Vistani, drow and others in D&D, and how WotC plans to treat the idea of 'race' in D&D going forward. In recent products (Eberron and Wildemount), the mandatory evil alignment was dropped from orcs, as was the Intelligence penalty.

@ThinkingDM Look at the treatment orcs received in Eberron and Exandria. Dropped the Intelligence debuff and the evil alignment, with a more acceptable narrative. It's a start, but there's a fair argument for gutting the entire race system.

The orcs of Eberron and Wildemount reflect where our hearts are and indicate where we’re heading.

@vorpaldicepress I hate to be "that guy", but what about Drow, Vistani, and the other troublesome races and cultures in Forgotten Realms (like the Gur, another Roma-inspired race)? Things don't change over night, but are these on the radar?

The drow, Vistani, and many other folk in the game are on our radar. The same spirit that motivated our portrayal of orcs in Eberron is animating our work on all these peoples.

@MileyMan1066 Good. These problems need to be addressed. The variant features UA could have a sequel that includes notes that could rectify some of the problems and help move 5e in a better direction.

Addressing these issues is vital to us. Eberron and Wildemount are the first of multiple books that will face these issues head on and will do so from multiple angles.

@mbriddell I'm happy to hear that you are taking a serious look at this. Do you feel that you can achieve this within the context of Forgotten Realms, given how establised that world's lore is, or would you need to establish a new setting to do this?

Thankfully, the core setting of D&D is the multiverse, with its multitude of worlds. We can tell so many different stories, with different perspectives, in each world. And when we return to a world like FR, stories can evolve. In short, even the older worlds can improve.

@SlyFlourish I could see gnolls being treated differently in other worlds, particularly when they’re a playable race. The idea that they’re spawned hyenas who fed on demon-touched rotten meat feels like they’re in a different class than drow, orcs, goblins and the like. Same with minotaurs.

Internally, we feel that the gnolls in the MM are mistyped. Given their story, they should be fiends, not humanoids. In contrast, the gnolls of Eberron are humanoids, a people with moral and cultural expansiveness.

@MikeyMan1066 I agree. Any creature with the Humanoid type should have the full capacity to be any alignmnet, i.e., they should have free will and souls. Gnolls... the way they are described, do not. Having them be minor demons would clear a lot of this up.

You just described our team's perspective exactly.

As a side-note, the term 'race' is starting to fall out of favor in tabletop RPGs (Pathfinder has "ancestry", and other games use terms like "heritage"); while he doesn't comment on that specifically, he doesn't use the word 'race' and instead refers to 'folks' and 'peoples'.

 

[Haldrik]

Beware translation errors! The English word "whitest" does not exist in the original Norse texts. Reasonable translations include "whitest of the gods", but also "brightest of the Aesir" and "the most glittering of gods".

We, now, are very hung up on skin color. Don't assume all cultures of the past were.

Yeah, it refers to Heimdall glowing like the rainbow glows.

His luminosity is multicolored − red, blue, green, and gold.

 

[Envisioner]

But you can still do that even if races are not 'inherently' evil. Regardless of where the tendency to evil comes from in Orcs (nature or nurture) Orcs are still frequently evil.

And black people frequently commit crimes; that's a simple statistical fact. Knowing whether they have an inherent "tendency" to do it, or are doing it for legitimate reasons (eg lack of other ways to escape poverty) which can be addressed through social policy, is kind of important. (For the record, I do think the truth is mostly the latter, so don't try and accuse me of arguing in favor of the "inherent" view. You can acknowledge the possibility that a thing might be true without endorsing the belief that it is.)

If it's offensive to some people in real life to say that orcs have an inherent tendency for evil (because those people for some reason conflate "orcs" with "black people"), then it's almost equally offensive to just say that orcs "frequently" choose evil when they had other choices. It's almost more sympathetic to say that it's in their blood and they can't help it, rather than to just say that they often make the wrong choice of their own free will. The latter makes them a race of unrepentant dicks; the former at least leaves open the possibility that their inherent tendencies could be cured through some sort of medicine or divine intervention or something.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I wonder what the Venn Diagram looks like for those who were all angry about Idris Elba as Heimdall.

I imagine it's a huge overlap with the folks furious that Insomniac would make a Miles Morales Spider-Man game as well.

 

[Flamestrike]

Incorrect. There is extensive medical data indicating that there are significant, but small, differences among the races, mostly in terms of reactions to certain medications.

Yes, but its the races themselves that are are social constructs.

Like, different ethnic groups look different to other ethnic groups (skin color etc). Those are obvious biological differences. The issue is how which traits we select to make those groupings and where we set the lines of demarcation between races.

Take skin color (and only skin color). You could walk from the heart of Africa to the Northern tip of Europe and its not like dark skin stops and fair skin just starts somewhere. You'll see a gradual shift in color the farther north you go. There are no lines of demarcation even when you apply just the singular trait to distinguish 'races'.

Now add height to that equation. Or eye colour. Or BMI. Or language. Or predisposition to medical conditions. Or any one of an innumerable number of 'qualities' or 'traits'.

Once you do that, the whole arbitrary nature of discrete 'biological races' breaks down totally.

What humans do, is we select a few (entirely arbitrary) traits, some biological, some cultural, some regional (and none of them consistently applied) and draw artificial socially constructed lines of demarcation (that do not exist in actual nature) to differentiate 'races'. And those lines are drawn at an arbitrary point in time.

Race is a social construct, just like 'culture' or 'nations' or 'money' is. It's something we literally make up, and only exists and has values according to social consensus.

All you're doing here is applying that social consensus. It doesnt prove the objective reality you assert exists, does so.

Its like me saying 100 dollar note is worth 100 dollars as an inherent quality of the note. It's not true; it only holds that value because we all agree it does. In the absence of socially constructed consensus on its value, it ceases having any value at all.

 

[lyle.spade]

How about "species"? The notion of 'race' is a construct, anyway, and within actual humanity means nothing beyond appearance (that is, it's not tied to behavior or moral or intellectual capacity, like 19th Century 'racialists' believed). And for blended species, like half-whatever, it's easy: a hand-wave of "different species can interbreed in the magical world."

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

In al-Qadim lots of monsters races are living within the civilitation. A half-ogre in the city with a decent job is perfectly possible.

 

[This Effin’ GM]

Incorrect. There is extensive medical data indicating that there are significant, but small, differences among the races, mostly in terms of reactions to certain medications. Doctors account for race because it does have an actual measurable effect. That doesn't mean that they treat some races better than others, just that they have to have specific treatment based on what race the person is, in order to have the proper curative effect. Melanin is a biological compound, levels of it have measurable effect, and it is genetically connected to certain other biochemical changes. There's no judgment in that, it's just a fact.

Thought it might be important to clarify that many EMRs do not require race to be recorded to treat patients. While suggested, it's not a necessary component to treat a patient.

 

[Haldrik]

What does medical technology have to do with the existence of gender dysphoria?

The term "gender dysphoria" is blatantly trans-phobic.

Most ancient cultures are aware and welcoming of individuals that self-identify with the other gender.

Transgender individuals have always been part of the human species.


Also, in D&D 5e, Eladrin view transgender individuals as sacred.

 

[Minigiant]

Giants I would put as being little different than humans,

I'd say giants are focused on social standing. In Freudian terms,a giant's brain is half Id half super ego. They care most about their desires and their place in the family, tribe, or Ordning. They don't need an reality principle as you food, your treasures,and your place in society is all a giant cares about.

If a giants want something,they take it. If they are too weak to take it, then they rationalize it as not being worthy of it. Power of the strongest.

Thus, the old school dumb brute orcs should be a subtype of giant.

 

[Zaukrie]

This was posted up above and it is a thorough discussion of race



There are two problems with using evil default humanoids. One, the language we use for 'evil' humanoids tends to echo real-world racist tropes and two, the concept of making a default evil species leads to othering the species can affect players who may have to deal with those issues in real life.

we both used species, thank you......would you include non-humanoid species being generally evil as problematic also?

I certainly agree that many, many, of the tropes echo real world racism.