D&D 5E WotC's Jeremy Crawford on D&D Races Going Forward

On Twitter, Jeremy Crawford discussed the treatment of orcs, Vistani, drow and others in D&D, and how WotC plans to treat the idea of 'race' in D&D going forward. In recent products (Eberron and Wildemount), the mandatory evil alignment was dropped from orcs, as was the Intelligence penalty.

@ThinkingDM Look at the treatment orcs received in Eberron and Exandria. Dropped the Intelligence debuff and the evil alignment, with a more acceptable narrative. It's a start, but there's a fair argument for gutting the entire race system.

The orcs of Eberron and Wildemount reflect where our hearts are and indicate where we’re heading.

@vorpaldicepress I hate to be "that guy", but what about Drow, Vistani, and the other troublesome races and cultures in Forgotten Realms (like the Gur, another Roma-inspired race)? Things don't change over night, but are these on the radar?

The drow, Vistani, and many other folk in the game are on our radar. The same spirit that motivated our portrayal of orcs in Eberron is animating our work on all these peoples.

@MileyMan1066 Good. These problems need to be addressed. The variant features UA could have a sequel that includes notes that could rectify some of the problems and help move 5e in a better direction.

Addressing these issues is vital to us. Eberron and Wildemount are the first of multiple books that will face these issues head on and will do so from multiple angles.

@mbriddell I'm happy to hear that you are taking a serious look at this. Do you feel that you can achieve this within the context of Forgotten Realms, given how establised that world's lore is, or would you need to establish a new setting to do this?

Thankfully, the core setting of D&D is the multiverse, with its multitude of worlds. We can tell so many different stories, with different perspectives, in each world. And when we return to a world like FR, stories can evolve. In short, even the older worlds can improve.

@SlyFlourish I could see gnolls being treated differently in other worlds, particularly when they’re a playable race. The idea that they’re spawned hyenas who fed on demon-touched rotten meat feels like they’re in a different class than drow, orcs, goblins and the like. Same with minotaurs.

Internally, we feel that the gnolls in the MM are mistyped. Given their story, they should be fiends, not humanoids. In contrast, the gnolls of Eberron are humanoids, a people with moral and cultural expansiveness.

@MikeyMan1066 I agree. Any creature with the Humanoid type should have the full capacity to be any alignmnet, i.e., they should have free will and souls. Gnolls... the way they are described, do not. Having them be minor demons would clear a lot of this up.

You just described our team's perspective exactly.

As a side-note, the term 'race' is starting to fall out of favor in tabletop RPGs (Pathfinder has "ancestry", and other games use terms like "heritage"); while he doesn't comment on that specifically, he doesn't use the word 'race' and instead refers to 'folks' and 'peoples'.

 

[Cadence]

Youre conflating the existence of distinct species with the difficulty in some cases of assigning a species (due to biological closeness of two closely related species). The geonome of each species is distinct, even among closely related species (like Humans and Orangutans or Chimps). You cant say that about human ethnic groups.

I'm not disagreeing about the separateness of the great apes from each other, or the unity of Homo sapiens!!

I should have just asked what the "discrete biological distinction" was that it took to make a species in general. Not that it's relevant to humans, but it might be when discussing the various D&D races. Are Orcs - Humans - Elves a ring species? Are Halflings clearly a different species than Humans? Are Duergar a sub-species of Dwarf or a closely related species?

So, what is the "discrete biological distnction" that I should take with me in to reading New Study Doubles the World’s Number of Bird Species By Redefining 'Species' , for example.

 

[Olrox17]

Basket of fruit was cultural − with the newly discovered science-based skills of realistic art including perspective, properties of light, and so on. Of course, the Renaissance itself was extremely political.

I would call it technical, rather than cultural or political. It's a work produced by a very skilled man trying to test his technical skills.
And I'll never deny that the Renaissance was very political. What I'll say, is that not all Renaissance art was political. That applies to art produced in every age of history.

Think of all of the paintings, murals, statues, and mosaics portraying the Madona − an important figure for sexual identity politics.

Yeah? I never said that art CAN'T be political. That would be crazy.
My argument is that NOT ALL art is political (also, my primary argument was that since you CAN make art without it being political, D&D should stay the hell away from current politics).

 

[Flamestrike]

Many want evil to be evil. No questions asked, no answer needed. It is a game. No need to go further.

Evil is evil. Nothing has changed. Orcs (like Drow) will still default to an evil alignment (on account of being raised in evil societies, taught evil behaviours, and worship of evil Gods), unless that Orc or Drow has made a deliberate choice (and difficult struggle) against that evil.

At least you blokes from the 'Orcs are inherently evil' thread and 'your LG Paladin is ordered to commit genocide, and that's totally LG, and when he proposes a non violent solution he is stripped of his paladinhood and publicly accused of treason and cowardice' thread can see where I was coming from now.

 

[CleverNickName]

Going back to my previous post (hard to believe that there has already been 13 pages of comments since lunch!), I did a little bit of work on what "Ancestry Traits" would look like in 5E.

A few core assumptions:

• All characters start with 6 Ancestry Points. The DM should adjust that number up or down depending on how much they want a character's family tree to matter in their game.
• Each Ancestry Trait costs 1 point unless otherwise noted.
• You cannot choose the same Ancestry Trait, even if it's on multiple lists. If you chose the "Dexterity Increase" trait from the Elf Ancestry list, you cannot choose it again from the Human Ancestry list.

Then, you spend these points on some ancestry traits from any number of races. Some DMs might restrict the number of ancestries a character could choose; more than 2 would start to really stretch things IMO but you might disagree.

Spoiler: Human Ancestry Traits

• Strength Increase: your strength score increases by 1.
• Dexterity Increase: Your Dexterity score increases by 1.
• Constitution Increase: Your Constitution score increases by 1.
• Intelligence Increase: Your Intelligence score increases by 1.
• Wisdom Increase: Your Wisdom score increases by 1.
• Charisma Increase: Your Charisma score increases by 1.
• Skill Versatility: you gain proficiency in two skills of your choice.
• Polyglot: you gain one language of your choice.
• Feat (costs 3 points): you start the game with one feat of your choice.

Spoiler: Elf Ancestry Traits

• Dexterity Increase: Your Dexterity score increases by 2.
• Wisdom Increase: Your family line has mingled with the Wood Elves. Your Wisdom score increases by 1.
• Intelligence Increase: You trace your elvish ancestry back to the High Elves. Your Intelligence score increases by 1.
• Charisma Increase: You are descended from the Eladrin or the Drow. Your Charisma score increases by 1.
• Fey Ancestry: you have advantage on save throws against being charmed, and magic cannot put you to sleep.
• Trance: You don't need to sleep. Instead, you meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day. After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.
• Languages: You can speak, read, and write Common and Elvish.
• Extra Language: you can speak, read, and write one extra language of your choice.
• Darkvision: you have darkvision to a range of 60 feet.
• Drow Magic: your Drow lineage has given you the innate gift of magic. You know the dancing lights cantrip. When you reach 3rd Level, you can cast faerie fire once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. When you reach 5th level you can cast darkness once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.
• Elf Weapon Training: You have proficiency with the longsword, shortsword, shortbow, and longbow.
• Cantrip: you know one cantrip of your choice from the Wizard spell list. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for it.
• Drow Weapon Training: You have proficiency with rapiers, shortswords, and hand crossbows.
• Superior Darkvision: You have darkvision to a range of 120 feet. However, you have disadvantage on attack rolls and on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight when you, the target of your attack, or whatever you are trying to perceive is in direct sunlight.
• Fleet of Foot: your base walking speed increases to 35 feet.
• Mask of the Wild: you can attempt to hide even when you are only lightly obscured by foliage, heavy rain, falling snow, mist, and other natural phenomena.

Spoiler: Dwarf Ancestry Traits

• Strength Increase: your strength score increases by 2.
• Constitution Increase: Your Constitution score increases by 2.
• Wisdom Increase: your Wisdom score increases by 1.
• Dwarven Toughness (costs 2): your hit point maximum increases by 1, and it increases by 1 every time you gain a level.
• Stalwart: your base walking speed is 25 feet. Your speed is not reduced by wearing Heavy Armor.
• Darkvision: you have darkvision to a range of 60 feet.
• Dwarven Resistance: You have advantage on saving throws against poison, and you have resistance against poison damage.
• Dwarven Armor Training: You have proficiency with light and medium armor.
• Dwarven Weapon Training: you have proficiency with the batteaxe, handaxe, light hammer, and warhammer.
• Tool Proficiency: you gain proficiency with the artisan's tools of your choice: smith's tools, brewer's supplies, or mason's tools.
• Stonecutting: whenever you make an Intelligence (History) check related to the origin of stonework, you are considered proficient in the History skill and add double your proficiency bonus to the check.
• Languages: you speak, read, and write Common and Dwarvish.

And so on. I didn't spend a whole lot of time on it; I just wanted to put enough ideas down to get the ball rolling. The idea here is that a "half elf" wouldn't necessarily be the offspring of an elf and a human; it might be the offspring of an elf and a dwarf, or a drow and a wood elf.

 

[TheSword]

Elves are different species without a clear real world analogy (putting aside Arayan comparisons) so that is less problematic to me.

My issue with Birthright is that not only are the ethnic groups/ cultures human and relatively homogeneous, they are then given inherent traits and stat mods, but that theyre also directly and expressly modelled after actual real world human ethnicities.

When you do that, and start labelling those [not real world but basically real world] cultures as 'barbaric, stupid and evil' you run into some pretty serious problems.

Can you imagine if they had have included a [East Asian but not really] peoples, who were 'disciplined and good at math'? Or a [Semitic peoples but not really] who 'worshipped a God of Commerce and were good with money?'

Its basically the same thing, and its clearly something to be avoided.

The solution is not to prohibit nations based on real world cultures, or to prevent stats and modifiers based on culture. But to make sure that all nations are attractive to play and inspirational for players.

I agree that Vos receiving -1 Intelligence is very problematic. I can see how writers allowed this to inform how Vos were portrayed. You are right that it went too far in that situation. Never let it be said that debate can't change minds!

I dont think the setting beyond help with a some revision and better portrayal of the Vos as more like Nilfguard - merciless rather than barbaric. All the regions could be distanced from the real world allegories with a bit more fantasy.

 

[Cadence]

I think it is cool that ancient cultures still exist today. Some heritages are thousands of years old.

Of course heritages evolve and have to evolve, but their continuity is cool.

I'm just not sure it's that much less problematic for a "group with a continuous heritage" to be described as smarter, wiser, more charming, better at certain things than others (and thus the others are worse), than it is to say it for a "race".

"We would never discriminate in hiring based on race!!! So, let's talk about your heritage." !?

 

[Haldrik]

I would appreciate a more modular, customizable approach to race / species / ancestry / whatever you want to call it. 5e in particular seems to lump cultural elements into the race packages. If I want to play a dwarf who was raised by halflings, I have to ask the DM to let me customize the dwarf race package because my dwarf would more likely know Halfling than Dwarvish, and may not have learned how to use typically dwarvish tools or weapons.

I think I would like several level 1 feats INSTEAD of a race.

Some of the feats can correlate with an ethnic group, like "Wood Elf Hunter" for proficiency with bow and spear, plus some interesting comments about Wood Elf clans. An other feat for "Wood Elf Treehouser" with a druidly cantrip for shaping plants, and comments about how some Wood Elf communities inhabit living trees coexisting with nature. And so on.

Then the player can focus on one aspect of a particular community, mix several communities with some kind of back story explaining how, or completely ignore ethnicity altogether.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Going back to my previous post (hard to believe that there has already been 13 pages of comments since lunch!), I did a little bit of work on what "Ancestry Traits" would look like in 5E.

A few core assumptions:

• All characters start with 6 Ancestry Points. The DM should adjust that number up or down depending on how much they want race to matter in their game.
• Each Ancestry Trait costs 1 point unless otherwise noted.
• You cannot choose the same Ancestry Trait, even if it's on multiple lists. If you chose the "Dexterity Increase" trait from the Elf Ancestry list, you cannot choose it again from the Human Ancestry list.

Then, you spend these points on some ancestry traits from any number of races. Some DMs might restrict the number of ancestries a character could choose; more than 2 would start to really stretch things IMO but you might disagree.

Spoiler: Human Ancestry Traits

• Strength Increase: your strength score increases by 1.
• Dexterity Increase: Your Dexterity score increases by 1.
• Constitution Increase: Your Constitution score increases by 1.
• Intelligence Increase: Your Intelligence score increases by 1.
• Wisdom Increase: Your Wisdom score increases by 1.
• Charisma Increase: Your Charisma score increases by 1.
• Skill Versatility: you gain proficiency in two skills of your choice.
• Polyglot: you gain one language of your choice.
• Feat (costs 3 points): you start the game with one feat of your choice.

Spoiler: Elf Ancestry Traits

• Dexterity Increase: Your Dexterity score increases by 2.
• Wisdom Increase: Your family line has mingled with the Wood Elves. Your Wisdom score increases by 1.
• Intelligence Increase: You trace your elvish ancestry back to the High Elves. Your Intelligence score increases by 1.
• Charisma Increase: You are descended from the Eladrin or the Drow. Your Charisma score increases by 1.
• Fey Ancestry: you have advantage on save throws against being charmed, and magic cannot put you to sleep.
• Trance: You don't need to sleep. Instead, you meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day. After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.
• Languages: You can speak, read, and write Common and Elvish.
• Extra Language: you can speak, read, and write one extra language of your choice.
• Darkvision: you have darkvision to a range of 60 feet.
• Drow Magic: your Drow lineage has given you the innate gift of magic. You know the dancing lights cantrip. When you reach 3rd Level, you can cast faerie fire once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. When you reach 5th level you can cast darkness once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.
• Elf Weapon Training: You have proficiency with the longsword, shortsword, shortbow, and longbow.
• Cantrip: you know one cantrip of your choice from the Wizard spell list. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for it.
• Drow Weapon Training: You have proficiency with rapiers, shortswords, and hand crossbows.
• Superior Darkvision: You have darkvision to a range of 120 feet. However, you have disadvantage on attack rolls and on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight when you, the target of your attack, or whatever you are trying to perceive is in direct sunlight.
• Fleet of Foot: your base walking speed increases to 35 feet.
• Mask of the Wild: you can attempt to hide even when you are only lightly obscured by foliage, heavy rain, falling snow, mist, and other natural phenomena.

Spoiler: Dwarf Ancestry Traits

• Strength Increase: your strength score increases by 2.
• Constitution Increase: Your Constitution score increases by 2.
• Wisdom Increase: your Wisdom score increases by 1.
• Dwarven Toughness (costs 2): your hit point maximum increases by 1, and it increases by 1 every time you gain a level.
• Stalwart: your base walking speed is 25 feet. Your speed is not reduced by wearing Heavy Armor.
• Darkvision: you have darkvision to a range of 60 feet.
• Dwarven Resistance: You have advantage on saving throws against poison, and you have resistance against poison damage.
• Dwarven Armor Training: You have proficiency with light and medium armor.
• Dwarven Weapon Training: you have proficiency with the batteaxe, handaxe, light hammer, and warhammer.
• Tool Proficiency: you gain proficiency with the artisan's tools of your choice: smith's tools, brewer's supplies, or mason's tools.
• Stonecutting: whenever you make an Intelligence (History) check related to the origin of stonework, you are considered proficient in the History skill and add double your proficiency bonus to the check.
• Languages: you speak, read, and write Common and Dwarvish.

And so on. I didn't spend a whole lot of time on it; I just wanted to put enough ideas down to get the ball rolling. The idea here is that a "half elf" wouldn't necessarily be the offspring of an elf and a human; it might be the offspring of an elf and a dwarf, or a drow and a wood elf.

I like the concept....and doubly so because using it makes more sense that individually creating new and unique half races that have abilities neither of their parents do.

The pitfall to watch out for is the end result being like the 2e version of this in the Skills and Powers line in which a PC made with the new way was always better than the original way.

 

[Helldritch]

Evil is evil. Nothing has changed. Orcs (like Drow) will still default to an evil alignment (on account of being raised in evil societies, taught evil behaviours, and worship of evil Gods), unless that Orc or Drow has made a deliberate choice (and difficult struggle) against that evil.

At least you blokes from the 'Orcs are inherently evil' thread and 'your LG Paladin is ordered to commit genocide, and that's totally LG, and when he proposes a non violent solution he is stripped of his paladinhood and publicly accused of treason and cowardice' thread can see where I was coming from now.

Had you taken care to read all post you'd have understood it immediately. I do not mix real life and games. I have too many friends victims of racism to tolerate this behavior in my life. I will not tolerate racism and ostracism related to health or social position.

But a game is a game. I want my evil to be evil.

 

[CleverNickName]

I like the concept....and doubly so because using it makes more sense that individually creating new and unique half races that have abilities neither of their parents do.

The pitfall to watch out for is the end result being like the 2e version of this in the Skills and Powers line in which a PC made with the new way was always better than the original way.

Oh, one of many pitfalls, I'm sure. I'm really just spitballing this here and I only made the slightest attempt at balance. And I only added three "races" from the PHB, imagine how bonkers things will get when the rest are added, along with Volo's, Xanathar's, Eberron, Theros...

I'm sure that this system is rife for abuse. Power-gamers everywhere are probably already salivating at the cherry-picking, game-wrecking possibilities. But with the right group and the right DM, this could be a good way of adding diversity.

EDIT: for non-core races and subraces, like Eladrin and Goblins and Genasi and whatnot, I'd deliberately not use them in this optional rule. The potential for abuse is just too high to be worth it. If you want to play something as obscure as a half-goblin eladrin tiefling, that's something you will need to develop with your DM on a case-by-case basis. This might make a good framework to base that discussion on, but it won't (and shouldn't) apply to every possible combination.