D&D 5E People didn't like the Psionic Talent Die

[Maxperson]

I am familiar with 3E, and while there are more mathematical objects, there really wasn't any more narrative depth in place. The formalizing of Background goes a lot further to provide character concepts than a slew of minor Feats.

No. It provides zero further depth than having the exact same thing informalized in 3e. Picking a few traits out of a book gives you no more depth than my 3e character with the exact same traits.

What formalizing those things in a 5e book does is give new players help in coming up with those traits in the first place. It's an aid, not some magical "I can make more concepts now" power.

 

[Mistwell]

I think it was more about the mechanic being counter-intuitive, not about it being hard to understand. Many, many, people just don't enjoy using counter-intuitive systems. It's annoying. It actively takes them out of the fun of the game. One my close friends has a PHD in mathematics, and is like that. He hates using counter-intuitive math in games. He definitely understands mathematical systems more fully than the guy in the group who misses thac0.

"There were a lot of people bouncing not just on the Psionic talent die, but just on there being a different mechanic at all. People are just like, "Can't I just sit down and play this cool thing please?""

 

[Parmandur]

No. It provides zero further depth than having the exact same thing informalized in 3e. Picking a few traits out of a book gives you no more depth than my 3e character with the exact same traits.

What formalizing those things in a 5e book does is give new players help in coming up with those traits in the first place. It's an aid, not some magical "I can make more concepts now" power.

Those are all concepts are, though. The math is simply an expression of that. 5E has more elegant math, is all.

 

[Maxperson]

Those are all concepts are, though. The math is simply an expression of that. 5E has more elegant math, is all.

That's the point. 3e and 5e have all the same concepts. The difference is that 3e supports more concepts mechanically. I can conceive of a planeshifting scam artist who has <insert traits from Charlatan here>, but only 3e really supports that concept mechanically with the Planeshifter prestige class. Initially he would grow into that ideal through use of portals and other aids, but eventually he would achieve the ability to go where he wills. In 5e I'd have to just be a wizard, much like every other wizard except for the Charlatan stuff.

The math in 5e is definitely more elegant, but 3e helped you achieve character concepts better.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

"There were a lot of people bouncing not just on the Psionic talent die, but just on there being a different mechanic at all. People are just like, "Can't I just sit down and play this cool thing please?""

Okay. Nothing I said contradicted that, so it’s a bit weird as a reply.

it’s also frankly a bit weird to just repeatedly quote that as reply to people’s posts.

 

[Undrave]

"There were a lot of people bouncing not just on the Psionic talent die, but just on there being a different mechanic at all. People are just like, "Can't I just sit down and play this cool thing please?""

If all you want is to do Psychic stuff you can already do it in the PHB.

Start with a Bard. At level 1, pick Message and Vicious Mockery as Cantrips. Over the course of your career you'll want to add Friends and Mage Hand to that. As 1st level spells pick any 4 of those: Charm Person, Comprehend Language, Disguise Self, Dissonant Whispers, Heroism, Sleep and Tasha's Hideous Laughter.

At level 3, go with Lore Bard. At level 6, pick Command as one of your additional Secret and then a copy of any Psionic Spell that is already on your spell list, like Fear, Hold Person, Calm Emotions, Crown of Madness, Enthrall, Suggestion, Zone of of Truth, Sending, Detect Thoughts...

All the spells are there and you can just fluff the effect of your bardic music as Psionic powers. Maybe play a Variant Human and add some of the Cantrips from the Sorcerer (I'd grab Friends and Mage Hand right away) and nab Mage Armor whle you're at it, just because it's good.

Here ya go, the 'Cool Thing'.

...Actually sound like it could be fun if you're into that sort of thing...

You could also do the same with an Enchanter Wizard, only thing missing would be Vicious Mockery.

 

[ClaytonCross]

I liked the Aberent mind sorcerer better than the Psionic Soul. However, I thought the Pychic die with Psi Knight and Soulknife were fine.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If all you want is to do Psychic stuff you can already do it in the PHB.

Start with a Bard. At level 1, pick Message and Vicious Mockery as Cantrips. Over the course of your career you'll want to add Friends and Mage Hand to that. As 1st level spells pick any 4 of those: Charm Person, Comprehend Language, Disguise Self, Dissonant Whispers, Heroism, Sleep and Tasha's Hideous Laughter.

At level 3, go with Lore Bard. At level 6, pick Command as one of your additional Secret and then a copy of any Psionic Spell that is already on your spell list, like Fear, Hold Person, Calm Emotions, Crown of Madness, Enthrall, Suggestion, Zone of of Truth, Sending, Detect Thoughts...

All the spells are there and you can just fluff the effect of your bardic music as Psionic powers. Maybe play a Variant Human and add some of the Cantrips from the Sorcerer (I'd grab Friends and Mage Hand right away) and nab Mage Armor whle you're at it, just because it's good.

Here ya go, the 'Cool Thing'.

...Actually sound like it could be fun if you're into that sort of thing...

You could also do the same with an Enchanter Wizard, only thing missing would be Vicious Mockery.

That’s a lot of waiting for basics like telekinesis (mage Hand), and a lot of baggage that doesn’t support the concept

 

[Undrave]

That’s a lot of waiting for basics like telekinesis (mage Hand), and a lot of baggage that doesn’t support the concept

Then pick Mage Hand instead of Message. I went for a more Telepathic build, but you can go with Mage Hand and Vicious Mockery first. Or use Magic Initiate to pick both at level 1 as a V-Human. You could go with an Enchanter and start with Mage Hand and Message. Just throw Mind Sliver in there, it's literally the only thing missing for the Enchanter Wizard to be a suitable Psion and it uses INT instead of CHA

And what baggage do you mean? On the Bard? Inspiration Dice and Cutting Words are perfectly fine if you consider them to be Confidence Boosting and Confidence Sapping. Music? Music soothes the savage breast, it is perfectly in tune with someone who specializes in manipulating emotion. It's more mundane but it's still a good way to understand how to control the way others feel. Add a little Psionic Powers and you get Song of Rest.

Everything else in the 'baggage' is fluff and can be re-written to fit.

If you want a 'Vanilla' option for a Psionic characer that 'works like the rest of 5e', it's alreadyd all there, right in the PHB, in two different classes even. It's not even a big reach, theme wise, for either of those subclasses.

For the background I'd pick Charlatan if I go for the Bard build, or Hermit for the Enchanter build.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Then pick Mage Hand instead of Message. I went for a more Telepathic build, but you can go with Mage Hand and Vicious Mockery first. Or use Magic Initiate to pick both at level 1 as a V-Human. You could go with an Enchanter and start with Mage Hand and Message. Just throw Mind Sliver in there, it's literally the only thing missing for the Enchanter Wizard to be a suitable Psion and it uses INT instead of CHA

And what baggage do you mean? On the Bard? Inspiration Dice and Cutting Words are perfectly fine if you consider them to be Confidence Boosting and Confidence Sapping. Music? Music soothes the savage breast, it is perfectly in tune with someone who specializes in manipulating emotion. It's more mundane but it's still a good way to understand how to control the way others feel. Add a little Psionic Powers and you get Song of Rest.

Everything else in the 'baggage' is fluff and can be re-written to fit.

If you want a 'Vanilla' option for a Psionic characer that 'works like the rest of 5e', it's alreadyd all there, right in the PHB, in two different classes even. It's not even a big reach, theme wise, for either of those subclasses.

For the background I'd pick Charlatan if I go for the Bard build, or Hermit for the Enchanter build.

You don’t see how kludgey all that is?