D&D 5E WotC's Jeremy Crawford on D&D Races Going Forward

On Twitter, Jeremy Crawford discussed the treatment of orcs, Vistani, drow and others in D&D, and how WotC plans to treat the idea of 'race' in D&D going forward. In recent products (Eberron and Wildemount), the mandatory evil alignment was dropped from orcs, as was the Intelligence penalty.

@ThinkingDM Look at the treatment orcs received in Eberron and Exandria. Dropped the Intelligence debuff and the evil alignment, with a more acceptable narrative. It's a start, but there's a fair argument for gutting the entire race system.

The orcs of Eberron and Wildemount reflect where our hearts are and indicate where we’re heading.

@vorpaldicepress I hate to be "that guy", but what about Drow, Vistani, and the other troublesome races and cultures in Forgotten Realms (like the Gur, another Roma-inspired race)? Things don't change over night, but are these on the radar?

The drow, Vistani, and many other folk in the game are on our radar. The same spirit that motivated our portrayal of orcs in Eberron is animating our work on all these peoples.

@MileyMan1066 Good. These problems need to be addressed. The variant features UA could have a sequel that includes notes that could rectify some of the problems and help move 5e in a better direction.

Addressing these issues is vital to us. Eberron and Wildemount are the first of multiple books that will face these issues head on and will do so from multiple angles.

@mbriddell I'm happy to hear that you are taking a serious look at this. Do you feel that you can achieve this within the context of Forgotten Realms, given how establised that world's lore is, or would you need to establish a new setting to do this?

Thankfully, the core setting of D&D is the multiverse, with its multitude of worlds. We can tell so many different stories, with different perspectives, in each world. And when we return to a world like FR, stories can evolve. In short, even the older worlds can improve.

@SlyFlourish I could see gnolls being treated differently in other worlds, particularly when they’re a playable race. The idea that they’re spawned hyenas who fed on demon-touched rotten meat feels like they’re in a different class than drow, orcs, goblins and the like. Same with minotaurs.

Internally, we feel that the gnolls in the MM are mistyped. Given their story, they should be fiends, not humanoids. In contrast, the gnolls of Eberron are humanoids, a people with moral and cultural expansiveness.

@MikeyMan1066 I agree. Any creature with the Humanoid type should have the full capacity to be any alignmnet, i.e., they should have free will and souls. Gnolls... the way they are described, do not. Having them be minor demons would clear a lot of this up.

You just described our team's perspective exactly.

As a side-note, the term 'race' is starting to fall out of favor in tabletop RPGs (Pathfinder has "ancestry", and other games use terms like "heritage"); while he doesn't comment on that specifically, he doesn't use the word 'race' and instead refers to 'folks' and 'peoples'.

 

[Coroc]

The debate is already pretty harsh,
So another question : Do orc can have psionic?!!!

Of course not, everybody knows they are brainless brutes. I though so much was clear from the 25 pages of discussion going on already, I mean that was the quintessence and now you asking something like that?

 

[Cadence]

I feel that "species" would be a better choice, though it does seem better for a sci fi game rather than fantasy; I think "heritage" and "ancestry" are pretty ugly and imprecise substitutes. Perhaps "lineage"?

I was wondering about "lineage" too when trying to think of a word without baggage. Anyone have an example where it's used badly?

 

[Coroc]

Not just orcs, but also other races as well. Imagine the possibilities of roleplaying them in places that are different from where they are. How weird it may be for them because they're so used to X in how they're normally treated but now they're treated like Y.

For example here is some info on how dwarves are described in the 5e setting of Dragon Heresy:
Unfortunately, because I'm on a mobile I can't snip the images of the dwarves, but I'm seeing them have skin that is like purple, red, or yellow. Oh and no beards or hair, despite the text saying they have hair. So they're like bald.

I mean imagine dropping a dwarf like this in say Forgotten Realms and them and local dwarves looking at each other and thinking, That's a DWARF?

And in 5e you are also not allowed to drop them on something, even if its named Forgotten Realms , just kidding

 

[Helldritch]

Of course not, everybody knows they are brainless brutes. I though so much was clear from the 25 pages of discussion going on already, I mean that was the quintessence and now you asking something like that?

Greyhawk's orcs are such things. But Eberron orcs are actually noble and sensible people. It all depends on the setting.

 

[Cadence]

These orcs are irremediably evil but the elves still hopes that some of them will one day see the light.

And now I have "Where there's a whip, there's a way" from the animated version in my head... "We don't wanna go to war today!"

 

[Krachek]

So can’t we just say that it is two solutions

Orc, medium humanoid
any alignement, can be a player race.
vs
Orc, medium fiend
chaotic evil or other evil, cannot be a player race.

 

[Cadence]

You can’t expect a human to be able to portray a creature that doesn’t think like a human. All humanoids are necessarily reflections of humanity no matter how much Gygax or anyone else professes otherwise because they are written, acted, and directed by humans, with human brains and human experiences. They can attempt to play something “alien” to their own experience, but the ways in which they do so are themselves shaped by their human experiences and thought processes.

I wonder if the first sentence could use an "at all" at the end.

No human knows what it's like to look at the world with a perspective of millennia like an elf. Do any look on the world with the pure logic of a vulcan? Do any have a beast inside them like a Camarilla vampire? But are those close enough that someone could play them as merely " 'alien' to their own experience", because even if they are so alien no human can ever really have that as their experience they are at least in the ballpark?

On the other hand, I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to play a Sabbat Vampire in VtM where the whole set-up seems to be to put the humanity aside.

Tangentially, can authors realistically write or DMs play completely non-human things? If so, how does that differ from playing them? Is it that we want RPers to become invested in the character and the author or DM can be aloof?

 

[Charlaquin]

I wonder if the first sentence could use an "at all" at the end.

No human knows what it's like to look at the world with a perspective of millennia like an elf. Do any look on the world with the pure logic of a vulcan? Do any have a beast inside them like a Camarilla vampire? But are those close enough that someone could play them as merely " 'alien' to their own experience", because even if they are so alien no human can ever really have that as their experience they are at least in the ballpark?

On the other hand, I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to play a Sabbat Vampire in VtM where the whole set-up seems to be to put the humanity aside.

Sure. You exaggerate certain things, downplay others, to emulate something that is different from one’s own perspective. But that is still ultimately a reflection of humanity.

Tangentially, can authors realistically write or DMs play completely non-human things?

I don’t believe so. That’s where the saying “all stories are human stories” comes from.

 

[Flamestrike]

To continue with my analogies that races are not humans and should not be treated as such, I should add the following.
If you want to play races as fancy humans, I strongly believe that you are missing the point of playing a different race. An orc, an elf, a dragonborn and a dwarf think and act very differently from a human and from each other.

If you downplay their differences, you should consider playing in a setting more like a sword and sorcery style such as the Hyperborea of Conan where all races are human variations.

Playing a race should be an occasion to expand your RP experience by experimenting a new way of thinking and point of view. Playing an irremediably evil race such as an orc in Greyhawk, should make you understand why the puny weakling that humans are, are so right in fearing you. Might makes right in the world of the orcs. We follow the chief because he is strong and his allies and underlings are strong too. But should they weaken, we will slay them and assume the mantle of leadership that will be our due. Honor is for the fools, we are not the nobles orcs of the Warcraft game. We are the warriors, the raiders, the slayers. We kill because we can. We take the lands that we want and we eradicate those that live in them to make room for us. When we retreat, it is to come back and to try again.

These are the orcs of Greyhawk. No pity, no remorse, no understanding beyond what is needed to kill. These are not the noble orcs from Warcraft or the Eberron setting. They are a plague and they embrace these notions wholeheartedly.

The same goes for the elves. There is no need to rush. Why are you so eager to go adventuring now? We already had one adventure this year. I'd rather take time nurturing this little tree I have planted yesterday. If I trim it correctly, this Oakling will become a giant tree majestic and worthy to bear a marvelous tree house. What is it you say? The evil hobgoblin warlord Kutchak is on the rise? That does not concern me. He will be dead in a decade or so. What am I doing right now? Funny you ask. I am perfecting my swordplay, I am about to find the perfect parry when using the sword in conjunction with a buckler shield made of yew instead of oak...

Yep. Races are not humans.

Orcs in Greyhawk are not irredeemably evil.

 

[Warren Ellis]

Orcs in Greyhawk are not irredeemably evil.

What are they like?