D&D 5E Level 20 Class Competition Ideas

[Hohige]

Etherealness + Skill Empowerment (Perception) can be trully bad for a guy trying hide. Lol.

 

[DND_Reborn]

If the wizard has time for multiple castings of simulacrum (a spell that takes 12 hours unless you're using wish to cast it), then said wizard has time to:

1. Cast Simulacrum on self to create Sim #1 (12 hours) (This Simulacrum is only missing the 7th level slot you used to create it)
2. Long Rest to regain 7th level spell slot (8 ~ 12 hours, depending on how soon after the previous long rest you cast Simulacrum)
3. Have Sim #1 cast Simulacrum on you to create Sim #2 (12 hours) (Sim #1 now has no 7th level spells slots; Sim #2 has all of its spell slots, as it is a copy of the wizard after said wizard regained their spell slots via long rest)
4. Have Sim #2 cast Simulacrum on you to create Sim #3 (12 hours) (Sim #2 now has one missing 7th level spell slot; Sim #3 has all of its spell slots, as it is a copy of the wizard after said wizard regained their spell slots via long rest)
5. Repeat step 4, with the newest created Sim casting Simulacrum on the wizard this time, as many times as you want or can get away (some arbitrarily large number). When finished, this results in a Wizard with full spell slots, Sim #1 with 2 missing 7th level spell slots, Sim #2 through next to last with 1 missing 7th level spell slot, and the last Sim with all spell slots.

Sorry, I was doing the math without a long rest to get your slots back.

Personally, I prefer the quick method of clone army creation:

1. Like above, Cast Simulacrum on self to create Sim #1 (12 hours) (This Simulacrum is only missing the 7th level slot you used to create it)
2. Long Rest to regain 7th level spell slot (8 ~ 12 hours, depending on how soon after the previous long rest you cast Simulacrum)
3. Have Sim #1 cast Wish ->Simulacrum on you to create Sim #2 (6 seconds) (Sim #1 now is missing 1 7th and 1 9th level spell slot; Sim #2 has all spell slots)
4. Repeat step 3, with the newest created Sim casting Wish->Simulacrum on the wizard this time, as many times as you want or can get away (some arbitrarily large number). When finished, this results in a Wizard with full spell slots (or 1 7th level spell slot missing that can be regained after a long rest), Sim #1 missing 1 7th and 1 9th level spell slot, Sim #2 through next to last with 1 missing 9th level spell slot, and the last Sim with all spell slots.

Sure, all but the last sim in the latter method are technically weaker than the one's in the former method (lacking their 9th level spell slot instead of 1 of their 7th level spell slots), but considering you can get 3600~7200 clones via the second method in the same time it takes the 1st method to make one (after the initial day it takes both methods to start their respective production lines)...

That being said, these days, I'm leaning towards having "the state of having cast simulacrum" be a statistic for the purposes of the spell's duplication, which would make it impossible for a self simulacrum to cast simulacrum by the spell's own rules. While this wouldn't stop the infinite clone army through other (more convoluted) means, said means would require cooperation from other individuals, which would shut down most would-be users of this type of shenanigans.

Interesting. I was also just using Simulacrum, but the Wish method would work instantly for the most part if you don't mind the simulacrums all missing an additional 7th level slot (you don't need the long rest).

I don't think you're allowed to have more spell points at a time than what your level gives you, but if I'm wrong, then that works.

Regardless, you can't use twinned spell to target the same creature twice, so twinning Simulacrum would only work if you had someone else to twin with you (not legal before the fight and good luck trying it during the fight against an opponent actively trying to kill you / not be killed by you).

No, you're correct. I was just looking under the Flexible Casting feature, but the cap is mentioned under Sorcery Points. The maximum number of Sorcery Points would be determined by your Sorcerer level. So, you would need at least 9 levels of Sorcerer, not leaving you enough levels of Wizard to actually learn simulacrum.

And sense you can't Twin Simulacrum on yourself, that would limit a Sorcerer to a single Simulacrum, while a Wizard could have and army of them via the Wish mechanic.... talk about truly broken! In any epic game where a Diviner Wizard selects High Magic, it is basically over no matter what because you have 2 9th-level slots (you use one slot to create a simulacrum, it still has one slot and uses it to Wish a simulacrum of you, that simulacrum still has one slot, ad naseum...)

Yeah, Simulacrum needs some heavy errata.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Removing magic items is fine, but I would offer one contingency if that was the case: weapon attacks are magical. You won't get any bonuses to hit or damage, but you can overcome resistance to non-magical attacks. This is because martials such as fighters and barbarians have no way really of making their attack magical, but in most games 20-th level PCs would have magical weapons.

How about, instead of doing it that way, we create a very small curated list of magic items useful to most characters? That would include your basic pluses for magic weapons and armor, as well as things like bracers of armor or ring of protection or whatever. Then, you get your magic items, but you must choose them from the list. It solves the problem without multiplying the complexity of the contest.

 

[Helldritch]

I think your competition was a bit biased though. So I don't think it's an overall good gauge.

It was not. I was among the referees. My personal pick was the sorcerer or the monk. Of course it was in the first three weeks of the start of 5ed. Some mistakes about some rules must have happened as our comprehension of the rules have refined over the years. Even today, some rules are debatable as views are often contradictory. But all contestants were playing by the same rules. The diviner came up on top. I was not playing the diviner. I hate it. But I have to admit that he wins all.

 

[Helldritch]

Maybe not. Forgot 3.5 rules.

"Etherealness
You ignore all Objects and Effects that aren't on the Ethereal Plane, allowing you to move through Objects you perceive on the plan you originated from. "

"Force is pure magical energy focused into a damaging form. Most effects that deal force damage are spells, including magic missile and spiritual weapon. "

Does Force Damage Affect Ethereal Creatures?

This passage from the description of the Border Ethereal (DMG p. 48) says that anything made of magical force can affect ethereal creatures: A traveler on the Ethereal Plane is invisible and utt...

rpg.stackexchange.com

Diviner Win every match. I beg to disagreed.

I can stay on Etherealness 16h regaining resources freely with Sorcerous Recovery, if the enemy just want play covardly.

Staying away from a fight for 16 hours is pretty much admitting your defeat. Changing plane is admitting defeat as it should be considered leaving the area. All your tactics so far, are from a loser point of view, so...

As for your quote on etheralness, it goes against the specific beats general. Down the post the JC's position is hotly debated. It would not be the first time that JC is out of place in his answer. A tweet is not SA. Until we see it as an official SA, I'll stick with the basic interpretation. Force damage has always been the way to attack etheral creatures. I wonder why it should go against tradition. It makes no sense.

 

[Hohige]

Staying away from a fight for 16 hours is pretty much admitting your defeat. Changing plane is admitting defeat as it should be considered leaving the area. All your tactics so far, are from a loser point of view, so...

As for your quote on etheralness, it goes against the specific beats general. Down the post the JC's position is hotly debated. It would not be the first time that JC is out of place in his answer. A tweet is not SA. Until we see it as an official SA, I'll stick with the basic interpretation. Force damage has always been the way to attack etheral creatures. I wonder why it should go against tradition. It makes no sense.

Again, The Diviner isn't a challenger. The divine must roll 3d20 that can be used only once per turn. Initiative or Save or suck spell but not both.
Remember you don't choose the number, It's lucky on die.
The only spell that can be dangerous is Feeblemind.
The Sorcerer can subtle counterspell everything It tries.

Look, Divine Soul Sorcerer with resilient (Inteligence) with Headbank of Intellect (19 Int), Ring of Protection (+1 Save/AC) and Stone of Good Luck (+1 Save)
It's 6 Proficiency +4 Int + 2 itens + 2d4 favored by the gods(avg +5)=+17 Saving Throw.
Well, with 1 on 1d20 the Divine Soul Sorcerer wins.


When the Sorcerer acts, It's over. Extended Etherealness.
Use With to duplicate Simulacrum.
Cast Extended Regenerate Spell, Extended Death Ward, Extended Sanctuary, Extended Mage Armor, Extended Upcasted Aid to avoid death by damage and actives Aasimar's Radiant Soul.

1)

Action for reappear
Quicken Empowered Radiant Soul Insect Plague spell at 320 feet x2 (The Simulacrum duplicates it)

2)
The Divine Soul and his simulacrum pre cast, Upcasted Spirit Guardians Empowered 8d8 +30 x2. It's avg 145 damage.

The Divine Soul action to reappear:
Bonus action: Quicken Empowered Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting for 12d8 for avg 65 necrotic damage.

The Simulacrum action to reappear:
Bonus action: Quicken Dimention door, teleporting the Divine Soul and the Simulacrum for Spirit Guardians and counterspell's range.

210 avg radiant and necrotic damage.


3)
Also, Distant Empowered Insect Plague is insane at 620ft

It's automatic upcasted Empowered16d10 +40 damage that ignores resistence and cover. Well It's over.
Also, doubles subtle counterspell.


Hard to defeat: Unearthy Recovery regain 110 Hp as bonus action and heal spell is insane healing.
Regenerate spell regain 1 hp per turn for 2 hours. If you are with 0 hp, you return with 1 hp next turn.
Aid, Death Ward helps a lot.

 

[Asisreo]

Yeah, Simulacrum needs some heavy errata.

The errata is that no DM ever has to put up with this nonsense. Everyone talks about simulacrum as if it's a constant, but no DM is under any obligation to give the wizard the components. Especially not any more than they need. If a wizard prepared simulacrum, I'd give him the components once and that'd be the end. Because, quite frankly, it's a bit absurd that powdered rubies would be so readily available. Who's powdering the rubies? Why aren't they out of stock because of every archmage in the world?

 

[DND_Reborn]

The errata is that no DM ever has to put up with this nonsense. Everyone talks about simulacrum as if it's a constant, but no DM is under any obligation to give the wizard the components. Especially not any more than they need. If a wizard prepared simulacrum, I'd give him the components once and that'd be the end. Because, quite frankly, it's a bit absurd that powdered rubies would be so readily available. Who's powdering the rubies? Why aren't they out of stock because of every archmage in the world?

Look at the components that have cost (as I explained before) and powdered ruby or ruby dust is one of (if not) the most common.

It would be better to errata the spell (or house rule it) for balance than rely on a stingy DM who can't think of any other way.

 

[Asisreo]

Look at the components that have cost (as I explained before) and powdered ruby or ruby dust is one of (if not) the most common.

It would be better to errata the spell (or house rule it) for balance than rely on a stingy DM who can't think of any other way.

That just means spells with those components shouldn't be taken lightly. That doesn't mean DM's should bend down and give the wizard what they want on their whim.

 

[Helldritch]

Getting ruby dust should be easy for a 20th level character. In fact, currency should not be a problem at all. At this level they can even wish for some. Even doing the alchemical process of changing diamond dust into ruby dust or whatever you think of should be fairly simple. I support Dnd4vr on that one.

And forget Hohige delusions that the diviner would not win. He confuses turns with rounds. White room does not beat experience and as I have said, we did it. Diviner wins. And again, I don't like diviners.