D&D General A Gruumsh Of A Different Type

[Krachek]

I think the real problem is that settings like FR and Greyhawk just have too many deities. Especially racial deities.

Unpopular Opinion: Either have only racial deities or none at all.

Racial deities in D&D just serve to reflect their relationships on mortal beings and subvert their free will. That's the point of this thread.
Evil Gruumsh before just serves as a vehicle for orcs to hate elves and dwarves and rope humans and halflings in the mix as allies. It'san excuse to copy LOTR's racial diplomacy over without the story and premise.

That's why I like @Kurotowa's Punk Rock Gruumsh. Now his destruction and fury is more sensible and his relationship with the civilized gods makes sense. You can understand wh Gruumsh hates some of them and can make sense of nonorcs following him.

Based on comments from Wotc future race development I can’t see how they will justified racial gods.
if they make orc freewill creature, it will be silly that they have a god of a single alignment.
maybe Gruumsh will have to recycle into Punk rock after all!

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

So, lets see a new take on the new orc pantheon:

Grummsh: CN Patron God of Orc, Wrath, Retribution, Destruction, Freedom, Rebellion, Perseverance. I see it as as another facet of Illmater. While the wounded lord is all about forgiveness and compassion, even toward those that created suffering, Grummsh is the god that says ''Never again''.

Luthic: LN, Patron Goddess of fertility, beauty, clan, order, dream, tales, animal husbandry. I see her as a orc aspect of Chauntea, like an orc's version of Berronar and Sharindlar.

Yurtus: TN, Patron God of Death, Diseases, Healing, Natural selection. I see him as the god who watches life and death in the orc's clan, and make sure every member, even the ones dying from a disease or the frailty of ages are given a meaningful death, making them useful for the clan.

Ilneval: LE, Patron God of Strategy, war machinery and forges, the Horde, Innovation. A mix of the Red Knight and Gond, Illneval brings back the ''corrupted industry'' side of the Tolkien's orcs.

Obould: CG, Patron God of Alliances, Peace, Conquest, Territory, Unity, Bloodlines, Honor and Nobility.

Shargass: NE, Patron God of exiles, travel, exploration, Darkness, underdark and undead. A mix of orcish Gorm Ghultim and Dumathoin.

Baghtru: CN, Patron God of Strength, Glory, Bravery, Loyalty, Athleticism, Revelry.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You ask the question, another Gruumsh, I will ask why Gruumsh?
IMO I always see too much gods in DnD pantheon.
5 or 6 deities to which you assign existing domains, that is quite enough.
Evil gods are more like fallen angels or banished one, and can be treated as fiend.
That´s quite enough for a home brew setting.

Yeah I’m not into worlds with a single very small pantheon. Doesn’t feel remotely “real”, and it’s just less fun, IME.

 

[Mecheon]

Yeah I’m not into worlds with a single very small pantheon. Doesn’t feel remotely “real”, and it’s just less fun, IME.

I think the problem is worlds should be multiple pantheons. Not this "There is one set of gods who everyone knows and they are all separate figures". I want regions who conflate the worship of two gods into a single gestalt entity, place higher expectations on certain deities above others, all that fun stuff

 

[Minigiant]

The DMG explains the types of pantheons well

• Loose Pantheon
• Tight Pantheon
• Mystery Cults
• Monotheism
• Dualism
• Animism
• Forces
• Philosophies

A core issue with D&D official pantheons in settings with deities, everything "natural" has to be created by someone. So if you have 3 dozen humanoids, you either have a god for each or a god creating multiples.

This essentially leads you to a "Gruumsh in FR/GH" situation were he exist solely to explain orcs existing.

Personally I prefer tight pantheons with deities being tied to core aspects of life like the modern Norse and Greek ones. Ones where each one has a worldly purpose. Then have humaniodscreatedfor the purpose or as projects of divine collaborations.

 

[Charlaquin]

Disclaimer: one of my guiding worldbuilding principles is “mythology, not history.” The following is meant as a mythical account of why things are as they are in their current state and not intended to be an accurate account of historical events in my setting.

In my world, Gruumsh is part of the original tetrad of Fae deities. He was originally the king of the summer court and patron of goblins (who in my world are of fae origin). He presided over the season itself, as well as its associated emotions such as boldness, aggression, and verve, the element of fire, and of course war.

Gruumsh was the most chaotic of the fae monarchs*. One of the ways this manifested was in his constant tinkering with the forms of his creations; where Corellon, Sehanine, and Lolth each created one people in their image, Gruumsh was never satisfied, hence the many various subtypes of goblinoid.

As in the default lore, there was eventually a great schism between the Fae monarchs. The details are a mater of much debate among theologians, but certain broad points are fairly consistent: as winter was nearing its appointed end, war broke out between Corellon and Gruumsh. The conflict forestalled the proper transition from winter into spring, and Lolth maintained a position of power long beyond her intended term. Corellon was eventually victorious, and both Lolth and Gruumsh were stripped of their courtly titles and exiled from the Otherworld.

Lolth’s people who remained loyal to her were exiled along with her, becoming the drow, while the shadar-kai who renounced her remained in the Otherworld. Likewise, some of Gruumsh’s peoples followed him into exile, while some remained behind. In his exile, Gruumsh created a new people, native to this World to which he had been banished: the orcs.

*yes you read that right, Fae are Lawful, fight me.

 

[Bohandas]

I thought orcs were Mongols? Or was it general Asians? Blacks? Slavics?

I thought they were redneck. Except green.

Or hillbilly or something. Like in Deliverance.

 

[Bawylie]

Sports. He’s the god of sports.

Glory in might and martial prowess, disdain (or envy) for delicate, elfy nerd-stuff, big on trash-talk, and holding deep, passionate, eternal vendettas over trivial setbacks or changes in the lineup. At the right sort of party, no better guest. And every tale worth hearing has an army of his followers in it.

If you arent a sports fan, then he and his worshippers seem utterly maniacal to you. You delicate elfy nerds.

 

[Tonguez]

Sports. He’s the god of sports.

Glory in might and martial prowess, disdain (or envy) for delicate, elfy nerd-stuff, big on trash-talk, and holding deep, passionate, eternal vendettas over trivial setbacks or changes in the lineup. At the right sort of party, no better guest. And every tale worth hearing has an army of his followers in it.

If you arent a sports fan, then he and his worshippers seem utterly maniacal to you. You delicate elfy nerds.

Take it for the teeeeam bruthaz!!!

 

[Flamestrike]

So, he’s a god of Fury, War, Destruction, and Orcs.

Can we make a Neutral god out of that? Or maybe even an evil god that mortals would not just placate out of fear?

What about a god of Wrath, The Wild, and Retribution? I can imagine characters of any alignment (Lawful being the least natural fit) worshipping such a god.

What about other “monstrous race” gods?

The Nilbog is an example of a chaotic neutral trickster. Extrapolate a semi-Fey related god of Freedom, Trickery, maybe Craft, with a penchant of playing very cruel tricks on those that “deserve” it.

One of the bugbear gods could be reimagined as a god of The Hunt, Shadows, and Nature, with an affinity with tall trees and dropping out of then to gank prey.


Any other thoughts?

I dont get peoples fascination with making gods Neutral all of a sudden.

Unless I am very much mistaken, one can be a thoroughly evil Cleric of a LG God in 5E with zero restrictions.

You simply interpret the will and scriptures of your God differently. You use those scriptures to justify all sorts of horrific crimes (pogroms, holy war, execution of apostates and infidels, torture of the unclean etc etc).

In fact, a LE Inquisitor or fanatic (or indeed an evilly aligned subfaction) of a LG God is so much of a trope it borders on cliche.

I see no reason why the same cant happen in reverse in many occasions. I could see a CG Priest of Gruumsh who focuses on a different interpretation of his dogma and will.

Objectively, we (the players) know Gruumsh is evil, because the game we play says he is. His dogma focusses on slaughter, conquest, strength over weakness, and taking things by force (all of which are evil). In universe however, to his followers and others, no-one knows what his 'alignment' is, and his priests would be free to interpret his dogma and doctrine however they see fit.