D&D General Fantasy Racism in D&D

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I think fantasy racism is fine as long as it doesn't glorify real world racism. Racists make great villains (I will in enslave all the goblins and force them to being the elves to their knees). I also find it adds humor to the game - not in a way that excuses racism, but amplifies it as the mind-virus it really is.

As for skin-color, my worlds tend to treat it the same was as I do in real like; it's no different than hair color, eye color, or any other inherent inborn characteristic: irrelevant to behavior and morale character.

 

[Burnside]

I mean, part of a "good" god are tales of protection, which often means violence. Even ignoring the violent world of DnD, good gods in human history might have called for extermination and violence within that religion. There's a level of contextualization that could make such statement acceptible.

Ezekiel 35 7-9
7 I will make Mount Seir a desolate waste and cut off from it all who come and go. 8 I will fill your mountains with the slain; those killed by the sword will fall on your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines. 9 I will make you desolate forever; your towns will not be inhabited. Then you will know that I am the Lord.

It seems like the god character in that novel is pretty evil.

 

[Dire Bare]

I mean, part of a "good" god are tales of protection, which often means violence. Even ignoring the violent world of DnD, good gods in human history might have called for extermination and violence within that religion. There's a level of contextualization that could make such statement acceptible.

Ezekiel 35 7-9
7 I will make Mount Seir a desolate waste and cut off from it all who come and go. 8 I will fill your mountains with the slain; those killed by the sword will fall on your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines. 9 I will make you desolate forever; your towns will not be inhabited. Then you will know that I am the Lord.

It seems like the god character in that novel is pretty evil.

Heh, yeah. Old Testament God isn't the nicest guy, he gets pretty vindictive.

Really, there are no "good" or "evil" gods in real world mythology, not like we have in D&D. Essentially, the gods my people follow are "good" and the gods other peoples follow are "evil". In fact, most of the named Christian demons are adapted from pagan gods who were not evil (any more or less than any other cultural god). These pagan gods, and the religions/cultures surrounding them, were literally demonized in order to show non-Christian faiths as evil and wrong.

I've always felt it would be interesting to tell new stories of the evil gods of D&D in such a manner. They are not really evil, but are just simply the cultural gods of peoples dehumanized by the "good" or "demihuman" races. Gruumsh an evil, savage war god who drives the orcs to slaughter innocents? Nah, he's a war god similar to Thor, who wields authority over justified war and the elements. And he takes second place to Luthic, an earth mother goddess who teaches the orcs the importance of family and home.

EDIT: For some reason I forgot "The Adversary", the god or demon whose sole purpose is to be the source of evil and misfortune. These figures are rarely objects of worship, as they might be in D&D, but serve as opposites to highlight why "god is good" and to tempt mortals into making bad choices.

 

[Burnside]

Heh, yeah. Old Testament God isn't the nicest guy, he gets pretty vindictive.

Really, there are no "good" or "evil" gods in real world mythology, not like we have in D&D. Essentially, the gods my people follow are "good" and the gods other peoples follow are "evil". In fact, most of the named Christian demons are adapted from pagan gods who were not evil (any more or less than any other cultural god). These pagan gods, and the religions/cultures surrounding them, were literally demonized in order to show non-Christian faiths as evil and wrong.

I've always felt it would be interesting to tell new stories of the evil gods of D&D in such a manner. They are not really evil, but are just simply the cultural gods of peoples dehumanized by the "good" or "demihuman" races. Gruumsh an evil, savage war god who drives the orcs to slaughter innocents? Nah, he's a war god similar to Thor, who wields authority over justified war and the elements. And he takes second place to Luthic, an earth mother goddess who teaches the orcs the importance of family and home.

The new Theros book does a decent job with this; none of the gods are essentially bound to any particular alignment, and any one of them could potentially be a villain figure or a benefactor in any given adventure or campaign.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

It seems like the god character in that novel is pretty evil.

I don't know. In Christianity, God defines what Good is, and in doing so, he defines himself and his creation as Good. Therefore, even in His most judgmental moment, God remains perfectly and wholly Good. He cannot be defined otherwise, because only He has the metaphysical authority to define Good and Evil.

 

[Dire Bare]

The new Theros book does a decent job with this; none of the gods are essentially bound to any particular alignment, and any one of them could potentially be a villain figure or a benefactor in any given adventure or campaign.

Yeah! I'm still salty over how Heliod did Elspeth wrong! (from the card game, incident not mentioned in the D&D book)

 

[billd91]

I don't know. In Christianity, God defines what Good is, and in doing so, he defines himself and his creation as Good. Therefore, even in His most judgmental moment, God remains perfectly and wholly Good. He cannot be defined otherwise, because only He has the metaphysical authority to define Good and Evil.

Well, there you go. When you get to declare that you and what you do are good by definition, it’s kind of suspect and very convenient. “Genocide is bad, except when I do it.“ Sounds fishy to me.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Well, there you go. When you get to declare that you and what you do are good by definition, it’s kind of suspect and very convenient. “Genocide is bad, except when I do it.“ Sounds fishy to me.

I expect that's the intention. If God gets to define what Good is, then no human can say “Genocide is bad, except when I do it," as you so wisely phrased it.

God defines Good, humans don't. Therefore, believers (theoretically) cannot engage in a double standard like the one you described above.

Is that what happened in real world history? Of course, not. Which makes me question whether to what extend Christians really believe in their own god.

 

[Aldarc]

I am currently working on my dissertation in Old Testament studies. I will say that this off-topic discussion on the deity of the Tanakh fails to put a lot of the characterization, text, and ancient ideology in its proper context. I’d advise that y’all drop it and move on to something more appropriate for the OP discussion.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Is that what happened in real world history? Of course, not. Which makes me question whether to what extend Christians really believe in their own god.

And let's stop this conversation on this topic here. This is off topic, and against the rules of the forum.