D&D 5E How should be the future Oriental Adventures.

[ZeshinX]

This is not true. In 2e, ninja was it's own class, belonging to the rogue group. In the same way a paladin was it's own class, but belonged to the warrior group. And why? Because of the varied specialties of the ninja (the warriors, the spies, the magic users, etc--which were what the actual kits were within the ninja class). Which is the best justification for it having it's own class in 5e because 5e's subclass system is made for it perfectly. I.e., a core ninja class of core features, then a subclass for the front line ninja warriors, a subclass for the spies and espionage, and a subclass for the arcane magic users.

Certainly one of the better arguments for dedicated classes for old OA classes (at least for the ninja). Even in 1e, the ninja was a weird kind of multiclass character, where the other class was their 'cover' class. 2e's Ninja's Handbook cleaned that up quite well with the various kits and the 'shinobi' approach to other classes being members of a ninja clan.

Still, I do like the idea of not adding more dedicated classes but expanding on adding subclasses. It could be just as easy to add a ninja subclass to the various base classes to reflect the specialized training a ninja might receive within their clan. It also fits quite well the mystique of the ninja being "everyone and no one" (if you subscribe to that particular aspect of what a ninja is/was). This, I think/feel, would allow the ninja to hearken back to both 1e and 2e in feel and approach, while maintaining 5e's more approachable/less bloat overall aesthetic.

So you could have something like this:

Fighter subclass (Shadow Warrior): The front line ninja warriors
Rogue subclass (Stealer-In and/or Intruder): The espionage/spy specialists
Wizard/Sorcerer subclass (Spirit Warrior): The 'ninja magic' practitioners
Bard subclass (Consort): The open infiltration specialists
Ranger subclass (Pathfinder): Terrain intelligence...sort of goes out and scouts the terrain for future operations in that area

This latter approach does obviously "scatter" the ninja concept (and would be best if done in a single book for the sake of ease of use), but it does fit the various previous editions approach and really drives home that ninja could be anyone...you just never know.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I stand corrected - I still don't think it needs to be a class in 5E though.

Obviously a matter of opinion. But with how 5e is designed with classes and subclasses, it's like the ruleset was designed just for a ninja. No other "occupation' has a key feature of pretending to be another class, since being a ninja is supposed to be secret, thematically. Since we know there are at least 3 specialties within a ninja class (not just D&D history, but actual historical lore), it makes perfect sense to have a core ninja class with a subclass of warrior, spy, and mage. You simply cannot capture the ninja concept in 5e unless you multiclass or use different classes. Shadow monk for traditional stealer-in. But a warrior ninja? Maybe a fighter/assassin. Arcane ninja? Arcane trickster rogue will have to do. Etc.

Every other major archetype gets a full class. IMO, the only reason we didn't 'see a full ninja class in the PHB was because they wanted to keep it eurocentric and if you had a full ninja, you'd have to address a lot more east Asian themes as well. I think they were saving that for later. Not that there wasn't justification to have a mechanically unique ninja class.

If you can't capture the most popular and well known representations of ninja without having a dedicated class and subclasses for those representations, then that's the best reason for it's justification. It's the same justification for every other class. In fact, some classes don't even meet that standard and still have their own class. So that begs the question, if that's not enough for justification, what is? And why does every other class meet it?

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I think it's interesting that 3e subtly had a bunch of Asian influences in it's psionic classes. It was capitalized on with the now rejected Mystic class from the UA playtests.

The Psion had some Indian influences on it as a Psionic Discipline is basically a Siddhi , and other cases tried to treat a bunch of the concepts of Ki as Psionics. There was even Tibetan influences such as Psionic Wands being called Dorje and the Metacreation discipline using Astral Constructs (called Tulpas in Tibetan). Of course 3e psionics also threw in a bunch of Victorian paranormal/pseudoscience concepts such as Ectoplasm.

 

[Chaosmancer]

This is not true. In 2e, ninja was it's own class, belonging to the rogue group. In the same way a paladin was it's own class, but belonged to the warrior group. And why? Because of the varied specialties of the ninja (the warriors, the spies, the magic users, etc--which were what the actual kits were within the ninja class). Which is the best justification for it having it's own class in 5e because 5e's subclass system is made for it perfectly. I.e., a core ninja class of core features, then a subclass for the front line ninja warriors, a subclass for the spies and espionage, and a subclass for the arcane magic users.

"Front Line Ninja Warrior" is about as far from a ninja as you can get without going "responsible banking pirates"

There is a fantastic youtube series called "Which Ninja" that delves into ninja tropes and misconceptions, and a big one is that ninja in anyway wanted to stand and fight. They could, they were trained in the arts of combat, but they were spies, assassins and survival experts before anything else, and most of their iconic tools and weapons were about getting away from a fight, not charging into one.

Now, fantasy world, ninja magic would be cool, but realistically speaking, Shadow Monk Spy with proficiency in survival and some tool sets is about the best "ninja" you could ask for.

Edit: Or Rogue, I guess, but I can't get picture a "realistic" ninja that was a front-liner. That was for other people.

 

[oriaxx77]

I'm an Asian Canadian, it's not a term favoured by the vast majority of Asians living in North America (and probably Australia and New Zealand too).

What term do you favor?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

"Front Line Ninja Warrior" is about as far from a ninja as you can get without going "responsible banking pirates"

 

[Sacrosanct]

"Front Line Ninja Warrior" is about as far from a ninja as you can get without going "responsible banking pirates"

If you believe that, then I suggest you do some research on the Iga province during the 16th century (like the battle of Iseji, or Oda's invasion of Ida in 1581).

 

[Kobold Avenger]

What term do you favor?

It could be Asian, Canadian, Chinese-Canadian, or Banana (though that term could be offensive to others, even if I'm fine with being called a Banana).

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

It could be Asian, Canadian, Chinese-Canadian, or Banana (though that term could be offensive to others, even if I'm fine with being called a Banana).

Well, that's very appealing!

....I'll show myself out now.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Well, that's very appealing!

The alternate term of Banana is Twinkie, but I don't use it since it refers to a certain type of Homosexual male and I feel the term Twinkie is best reserved for them.